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Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Christmas Wars | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Oh, c'mon, it's a War On Christmas if Starbucks isn't celebrating Christmas hard enough ... before Thanksgiving. You really count that? One pastor said something stupid, and then non-Christians make it go viral through click-bait on Facebook. And then you blame all the Christians for bitching about a War on Christmas when most of them never really did.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8562 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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I see more complaining from non-Christians about Christians bitching about the war on Christmas than I actually see Christians bitching about the war on Christmas. Then you are not watching FOX or the christian networks, listing to the christian radio programs or reading the christian blogs and forums. It's more than pervasive. It's a study drum beat of christian martyrdom and abuse by this society with (given the season) "Merry Christmas" right there at the top of the bitch list. The rest of the year is the gay and the mooslim and more the mooslim and more the gay. With a sprinkling of jesus' love and burning in hell. But mostly it's the gay and the mooslim and that satanic "Season's Greetings". Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I don't watch Fox News very often, but so far the War on Christmas stuff has seemed very minimal to me. I simply haven't come across it at all. Wikipedia's Christmas controversy article discusses a single incident involving Starbucks for 2015. And, oh look who jumped into the battle!
quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8562 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
I don't watch Fox News very often, but so far the War on Christmas stuff has seemed very minimal to me. I simply haven't come across it at all. That's because the war is being waged only by the fundamentalist side. The rest of us don't care. But it is a bloody desperate battle for the soul of the nation, doncha see. The poor christians are being hounded, beaten and fed to the lions by massive hoards of blood-thirsty gays, mooslims and (ack!) a secular liberal atheist army! Obama is leading the atheist army dressed in his keffiyeh with those red horns of his sticking out of it. The children are being starved of the love of jesus. "Merry Christmas", school prayer and city park nativity scenes must be returned to their god-given rightful places lest the nation suffer from god's wrath ... and gays ... and mooslims ... and hurricanes and droughts and high interest rates. If you haven't had the opportunity before you might be entertained by the crazy things Ed picks up for his Dispatches from the Culture Wars A recent FOX shot https://youtu.be/KABPtihXbxE A bit of history https://youtu.be/jdRWWcG45X4 One more https://youtu.be/9MtkgB_qtHw There really must be a war on christmas because the christians keep saying there is. There's plenty around but I don't want to do more. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Huh?
That makes no sense. Those characters are created to convey the thoughts and feelings of the author(s). Their ability to do that effective derives in large part from the extensive work of the authors in creating those characters, their peculiar natures, etc. There are few of us who can see the scene in that bastardization without recollecting the atmosphere created in the original, and that atmosphere is part of the power of the message. The message in the bastardization would have very little force or meaning were it two stick figures just talking about the technical origins of the holiday of Christmas. And that's why the bastard who bastardized that scene chose to use Charlie brown and all his friends: they didn't want to put in the work of creating their own powerful characters and their own powerful scenes; they just wanted to rob someone else's.Love your enemies!
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
they didn't want to put in the work of creating their own powerful characters and their own powerful scenes; Why would they needed to have created an entirely new mythos? Especially considering that most powerful messages are conveyed by using the culture's mythoi that already exist. For example, there's that religious painting of the Aryan Jesus knocking at the door; my very religious Protestant grandmother (originally Catholic, but that's a story in itself that would not interest you) had one. I have a graphic file in which dialog bubbles are added (Salvation for DUMMIES by Mrs. Betty Bowers):
quote: Now, what if Mrs. Betty Bowers, America's Best Christian, had to follow your restrictions? She couldn't use "Jesus knocking at the door", so she'd have to invent something else. But since nobody reading that would have any idea what she is talking about, it would be meaningless. Similarly, if she had to make up another fictional character other than Aryan Jesus, the entire message would have been meaningless. The Blue Beetle? How could that ever have any meaning? Those of us who have ever had to endure a lit class, be it English or in another language (German in my case), have undoubtedly heard that old truism that there exist only 15 to a couple dozen different stories and that every story that has ever been written has been a variation of those very few distinct stories -- a corollary wisdom is that in evaluating a given work, the criteria do not include whether the story is original (impossible according to the truism) but rather the author's skill in retelling that particular story (another corollary fuels the content-insatiable entertainment industry -- 1). So then, using iconic figures to retell a story should not only be acceptable, but also expected. And you deftly avoided Hyroglyphx' point:
Hyroglyphx writes: Christmas is historically an amalgamation of different pagan beliefs that were Christianized by Constantine and other early Christian figures. FOOTNOTE 1: When I was a young married airman stationed in North Dakota in 1977 and we lived in a small town miles out of the base, I was assigned to the swing shift (1630 to midnight) so my wife sat alone near the middle of nowhere (the actual Middle of Nowhere was about 130 miles away outside the town of Rugby; visited the marker and took our picture, even though the Middle of Nowhere is actually about 17 miles south by southwest from Rugby) with nothing to do but watch TV from the major-network signals we were able to pull in. One night I came home from duty after midnight, she told me about two shows she had watched that night back-to-back (apologies, but I forget the order). First was a Charlie's Angels episode in which someone had committed a robbery with an illegal pistol that he had shot somebody with so he disposed of it in the bushes of a park while on the run. Then a kid finds it and accidentally shoots a main character and runs away scared while that main character lies mortally wounded waiting for the others to find her and rescue her in the nick of time. Following that was an episode of The Mod Squad which ran the exact-same scenario. At the time, I had BA German and my wife had a BA French (admittedly a mixed marriage, but we were able to make it work for a couple decades), so we had about the same amount of education in literature. I agreed with her hypothesis that many TV writers write a few solid scripts and then shop them around to various productions, changing each one superficially to fit with that particular show and its characters. So not only are most "stories" just retellings of the few "original stories", but many of the retellings are just the result of a few cosmetic changes. I've seen references to a country song that goes something like "99 Channels and There's Nothing On". That describes a ferocious beast that demands air-time content and demands to be fed constantly. Growing up, my father would at times draw us into an argument in which he would insist that he had seen this TV show before even though it was its first broadcast. In high school, my friend and I were into reading the reprinting of Doc Savage stories, when his older sister started pointing out how the same stories were being recycled. Edited by dwise1, : Problems caused by confusion between HTML and BBForum codes. Essentially, punctuation errors.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Sorry if I misunderstood you but to me you seemed to imply that the Christian reason for Xmas was the original and everything trying to not succumb to that is loathable multiculturalism. That's not what I'm saying at all.
IMO war on xmas is a totally made-up cause for butthurt Americans to be able to portray themselves as martyrs. Few people believe an actual war has been waged on Christmas, and those who do probably think the commercialization of Christmas to be as much a part of that war as the frequent use of "Happy Holidays" even amongst people who all celebrate Christmas.Love your enemies!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Then you are not watching FOX or the christian networks, listing to the christian radio programs or reading the christian blogs and forums. Of course I'm not! You are!?
It's more than pervasive. It's a study drum beat of christian martyrdom and abuse by this society with (given the season) "Merry Christmas" right there at the top of the bitch list. Are you guys complaining that the sources of right-wing christian propaganda are, *gasp*, providing right-wing christian propaganda!? How would you respond to me going to the darkest depths of the sources of left-wing anti-theist propaganda, and then complaining about how atheist are intolerant of religion and are trying to destroy our rights to it? Is that what we're supposed to do? Go to the other side's worst of the worse, and then use a broad brush to paint them all as being that?
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4447 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
That's because the war is being waged only by the fundamentalist side. The rest of us don't care. The thing that has puzzled me ever since Fox and the other rightwing dingbats started wagging the dog in the Xmas War is, why aren't they all pissed off at Santa Claus and his reindeer for stealing Christmas. Santa isn't wearing a cross or spouting Bible verses.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8562 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Then you are not watching FOX or the christian networks, listing to the christian radio programs or reading the christian blogs and forums. Of course I'm not! You are!? Of course I am! Despite stories to the contrary these sources will not rot your eyeballs or poison your frontal cortex. How else to know what the weirdos are doing if you don't listen to and read them?
How would you respond to me going to the darkest depths of the sources of left-wing anti-theist propaganda, and then complaining about how atheist are intolerant of religion and are trying to destroy our rights to it? I would respond with a "Well done." Surprised? If you don't know it's going on, and indeed it is, you won't know it when you see it in the open and how to counter it. Know thine enemy.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8562 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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...why aren't they all pissed off at Santa Claus and his reindeer for stealing Christmas. Get pissed at Santa? You're kidding, right? Santa brings you presents. Cammo gear, gun oil, AK-47s, fruitcake shotgun pidgins, silhouette targets of Obama, all the things a good christian family needs.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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And then you blame all the Christians for bitching about a War on Christmas when most of them never really did. I must have missed the bit where I blamed all the Christians for something. Perhaps you could point it out to me.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Is that what we're supposed to do? Go to the other side's worst of the worse, and then use a broad brush to paint them all as being that? No, which is why no-one suggested that. What I would suggest, however, is that if you're going to suggest that there's more of X than Y, it would be a good idea first to look for instances of Y. Otherwise you might be suffering from a sampling error.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Woo-hoo, we're PC bro! If the goal is to sell as much stuff as possible to customers, then why is using "Seasons Greetings" considered PC rather than just being commercially smart? A retailer should use whatever gets the most customers through the door. Now, I can cite instances where that might not be happening. But generally speaking, using "Season Greetings" ought to be perfectly acceptable unless you've got a butt hurt reason for getting offended. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
cafeine writes: The Dutch word for what we call 'kers' is 'kerst'. Nothing to do with Christianity. Not in Dutch, either. This is a bad example. The 'kers' in 'kersfees' doesn't originally come from 'kers'. It's derived from 'Kerst' - and in Dutch they still sometimes call it 'Kerstfeest So, I did give a good example.
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