The Christmas Wars

I don't watch Fox, or any TV for that matter, so I have no idea what this "PC War on Christmas" is.And I think everybody is missing the point here. It's not a religious thing, it's a protest against Multiculturalism which has usurped what used to be a simple Christmas holiday in American culture, now pretending it also applies to every other religion so even the two members of Religion Z won't feel "offended" by our traditional standard cultural celebration, which is silly at best. No more strictly American anything in this Sappy New Age. And multiculturalism is quintessential PC.However, I think everybody should shut up about it, Fox or whoever. What's the point any more?

Santa Claus has never been a Christian element of Christmas, he's a cultural figure. The other nonChristian elements are things like the Christmas tree, the yule log, mistletoe and so on. The Christmas tree has been Christianized in some contexts but otherwise nobody confuses these with the Christian meaning of Christmas, it's just all part of one big celebratory season. The earlier incorporation of gods as saints is proof that Catholicism is pagan, but none of that is accepted in Bible believing Christianity. As long as the focus isn't on the pagan meanings in Christmas there's no need to make an issue of them. It's simply been made into an excuse to remember the birth of Christ. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So they finally got around to acknowledging what some thought all along. The idea wasn't invented in 1954, merely finally recognized.

Didn't the Puritans outlaw Christmas as a pagan holiday or something like that?But a problem is that Luther is said to have brought in a Christmas tree. I haven't seen that debunked so I assume it's true.We COULD ignore the holiday but as long as nobody is celebrating any of those pagan deities I'm not worried about it. Why not have an all-out pretty glittery holiday once a year? I don't celebrate it any more myself anyway, it's something you do for others, and all the others in the family live far away. I usually see them after Christmas, which I will this year too.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Luther didn't completely free himself from the trappings, but there's not a shred of Catholic doctrine left standing even in his theology. Anglicanism is a similar situation but they too got doctrinally pure for a while. There are some great Anglican preachers but no recent ones. Aside from that it all got purer after Luther. A thorough purge was done of all the Catholic accretions, leaving the Bible and its earliest interpreters who knew nothing of the Roman corruptions. There's no way it's right to say it has anything to do with Catholicism. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

But we all know Jesus wasn't born in the winter, and sheep on the hillsides at night is a clue that He wasn't. Christmas is just an opportunity to celebrate His birth since we don't know when it was, and it displaced some pagan celebrations which was a plus. The Solstice hardly even enters into a Christian's mind. I always take note of it myself just because even though we're headed into real winter and it may be pretty miserable, I like to notice how the days are getting longer as a cheery note in the midst of it.And Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you.

But that is in fact not true. Both Erasmus and Tyndale had Greek manuscripts of the Bible, which I understand to have come through the priests of the Eastern churches who fled into Europe from the Islamic conquerors of the time. The route was not the Roman Church. The Greek texts were used to correct the Latin Vulgate.Wikipedia has: The Roman Church was the repository of the writings of the early Church Fathers I suppose. Or maybe even copies of those came along with the Eastern priests. Being a repository doesn't make those writings Roman Catholic. The early church had plenty of doctrine for the Protestant Reformers to draw on that doesn't support the Roman corruptions. They also had contact with groups like the Waldensians who had been dissidents from the RCC from very early times, having their settlements high in the Alps. And they had their own Bibles.

I didn't mean to be insulting you, why are you so angry? I know you had just mentioned the fact that sheep don't graze at night in winter, I was just echoing you. It may not have sounded like that, I didn't write it very well, and part of it was that I thought you might not know I knew that, but mainly I just meant to be saying yes to your statement.All I was saying about the Solstice is that Christians don't celebrate it and although I keep track of the lengthening days that's not a celebration either, it's therapy for my Seasonal Affective Disorder or something like that.Please, cheer up. It's supposed to be a cheery season and I really had no intention of insulting you.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Oh no problem, Jon. I didn't make myself very clear so dw couldn't have known what I meant.

Not entirely sure what you are trying to say, but I suppose you think that chapter of Jeremiah really does forbid Christmas trees?If so, it's not true. That chapter is referring to the making of idols by the heathen nations by carving them out of wood and decorating them, to worship them as gods. There are other references in the Bible to the making of idols out of wood. It is a mocking of the idea that they are gods to describe them as unable to move or speak, in contrast with the living God of the Jews. Here's a Google Image page of typical carved wooden idols, which is what the Bible is referring to. And a page specifically of Canaanite godsEdited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

OK I get it now. Of course an atheist wouldn't see a problem with idolatry.

It continues to astonish me how a Brit could have absolutely zero knowledge of the Christianity that made the UK great.

That's cute but I do have to point out that it isn't the tree that's the idol, it's the god images that were carved out of the wood, as I showed with the Google Image pages.

Why should anything happen to tree decorators? Or even idol carvers for that matter?

As I said, the ignorance of the Brits about the religion that built the UK astonishes me. That's why I said that. There's no problem with Christmas trees and what other religions do is their own business as long as they aren't pushing others around with it.