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Author | Topic: Addiction By Definition | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 706 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I worked with a young fellow who used to quit smoking every week - a day or so of abstention in every seven.
Its not the length of sobriety so much as it is the total number of days of sobriety overall versus the total number of relapsing(irresponsible,rebellious) days of addiction hat make up the big picture.
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Larni Member (Idle past 147 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
A good yard stick about addiction is to define when the addictive behaviour becomes a problem for the person.
I've known people (myself included) who would smoke weed every day for years and have a job and family and a good life. I know full well that at a time in my life if somebody had asked me to quit weed I would have laughed at them. My take on things is that if one's behaviour does not affect their quality of life (however that's defined) then even though they may not be able to stop (at that time in their life) then there is not much of a problem: certainly not a treatable problem.The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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Phat Member Posts: 18690 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
Recently I have been studying the work of Dr.Jeffrey Schwartz one of the world’s leading experts in neuroplasticity.
quote: Last year I studied some of Dr.Patrick Carnes, an addictions expert. Both of these men are leading researchers in the field of addiction and both basically agree on the behavior of the human brain during addiction and how the brain heals from addiction when it becomes an entrenched disorder. Dr.Carnes says that it takes the brain at least a year to heal, basing his conclusion upon the clinical analysis of hundreds of patients. Schwartz concurs, saying that a patient who seeks relief from obsessive/compulsive disorder can basically change their brain...but...(and this is a BIG but) it takes a lot of time, mindfulness,pain and active participation in retraining or rewiring the neural pathways. Schwartz has what he calls the Four Step Method.
Four Steps Explained Step 1: RelabelStep 2: Reattribute Step 3: Refocus Step 4: Revalue I am currently working on refocus and reattribution of the obsessions and compulsions. Many of you know of my struggles with addictive behaviors, and the evolution of my awareness in this field. Schwartz calls it a medical condition, and i am inclined to agree.(not blaming my problems on an external cause,however....my wanting to change is an all-important first step. Larni, have you used any of this in your clinical practice? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18690 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
I worked with a young fellow who used to quit smoking every week - a day or so of abstention in every seven. Rational Recovery was my earlier study, and I grasped the concept of personal responsibility in the process. What I failed to understand, however, is what Jack Trimpe (Founder of RR) called the Beast nature of my limbic brain and the failure of my understanding the faulty mixed signals. RR made it sound so easy---just stop! I prefer fantasy over reality, however...and justified my preference by self invoking God to turn fantasy into reality. Earlier this year I won $5000.00 and found myself in hot water deeper than ever! I became worse. I refused to face the pain of reality and the hard work of actively changing my brains biological "character".
ringo writes: Yes and no. The research has quite clearly defined(through brain imaging) that the OCD is a medical condition. The problem is that I cant blame satan nor ask God to fix this condition for me. The responsibility lies with the patient. What about the need to blame somebody besides ourselves? Would that be an addiction too? There are definite stages to the recovery process. One patients definition is this:
quote: Note how long it took for the full healing process to take place. Carnes states that the brain begins to reset itself after 150 days. Schwartz calls it neoplasticity yet does not mention a specific time frame. My best guess is that the brain changes between the 5th and the 18th months. I have never been able to remain sober from my addiction longer than 60+ days. Carnes says that it takes six months to even heal enough to bring back the negative feelings that lie repressed. Edited by Phat, : edit Edited by Phat, : clarification Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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ringo Member (Idle past 706 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have to say that gambling is an addiction that I can not understand. I don't find gambling the least bit appealing. I'm horrified at the prospect of losing, not thrilled at the prospect of winning. Stage 4 — understanding (and accepting) a life without the addiction. I can understand the appeal of alcohol. I can also understand a life without alcohol but I don't know how you can go from one understanding to the other.
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Phat Member Posts: 18690 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
The point is that you can understand what appeals you.(or to you) Knowledge is power.
At this point I am no expert. God grant me the strength to face the necessary pain that precludes healing. All bets are off on whether or not I will succeed. I used to believe that one needed to hate their sin (addiction) before being able to master it. Currently I am of the opinion that it is quite all right to acknowledge that I really like my addiction. Or at least I think I do. The brain may, however, be sending false signals.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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ringo Member (Idle past 706 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
My point is that I can understand what appeals to me and I can also understand that it isn't good for me - I can hold both understandings in my mind at once, even though they're contradictory. The question is, how do I change my behaviour to coincide with one understanding and not the other?
The point is that you can understand what appeals you. Phat writes:
The brain is sending conflicting signals. How do we choose which are "false"?
The brain may, however, be sending false signals.
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Phat Member Posts: 18690 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
I'll explain this better as I progress in my own recovery. It is one thing to be able to explain a process and theory logically--anyone can read the research of others. It is only after having tested their theory--personally---that one can truly explain it.
One question: How do you personally know the difference between your understandings? Can you identify a distinct difference in how you feel about each one, and do you intuitively know which understanding is the better of the two?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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ringo Member (Idle past 706 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
What appeals to me is intuitive. I can't explain to you why I like pickled herring or why I don't like cashews but it isn't something I have to think about. What's "good for me" has more to do with outside influences - what other people tell me. I "know" that sugar is bad for me but I don't feel it.
How do you personally know the difference between your understandings? Phat writes:
Well, I intuit one and I know the other. ... do you intuitively know which understanding is the better of the two?![]()
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Phat Member Posts: 18690 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
The brain is sending conflicting signals. How do we choose which are "false"? For me, it all boils down to what I want out of life. Who was it who wisely said "all things in moderation"? Some things can be safely done in moderation--such as eating chocolate cake.Some of us can have just one or two drinks--no problem. Others start drinking, knowing that they will stop when the bar closes. The Rational Recovery folks say that there is an addictive voice within all of us. The only time that a conflict really occurs is when we want to stop--or slow down--and find ourselves actually unable to do so. As long as we allow our inner Beast everything it craves, nothing will ever change. So then the question---how do you know which inner voice is the Beast and which is your conscience? Several keys:
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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ringo Member (Idle past 706 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course the Beast isn't only a problem with addictive behaviour. We need to control our impulses to punch people or to skip work, etc. The Beast lives largely in the present moment. The future consequences are never considered. The Beast does not care about our health. It only cares about our present desires and happiness. As you say, the real problem is in recognizing the Beast.
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Phat Member Posts: 18690 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
The consensus among scientists now is that OCD is a medical disorder rather than simply an impulse control disorder.
Once the characteristics of this beast are relabeled and re attributed to a broken feedback loop in the brain, work can begin on refocus and revalue. It takes patience and tenacity. First and foremost, however, is a willingness to let go and use logic and reason. Experts say that the healing really starts after 150 days sobriety. i have never made it past 72 days in my life. ![]() Mentally and logically, I see the big picture. Emotionally, however, i am taking baby steps.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2635 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.1 |
Phat inquires:
Who was it who wisely said "all things in moderation"? If memory serves me well, this was written above the gateway into the Oracle at Delphi from the times of ancient Greece.- xongsmith, 5.7d
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ringo Member (Idle past 706 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't doubt that there's a medical component but that's not an excuse for behaviour.
The consensus among scientists now is that OCD is a medical disorder rather than simply an impulse control disorder. Phat writes:
This is what seems contradictory to me. It's a medical disorder, so we use logic and reason to cure it? We can (hypothetically) use logic and reason to control our behaviour in spite of the medical disorder - but that doesn't seem to be working reliably.
First and foremost, however, is a willingness to let go and use logic and reason.
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Phat Member Posts: 18690 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
It's a medical disorder, so we use logic and reason to cure it? The Four Step Program can be used with or without a therapist and evidence shows that by understanding what is happening medically, one can literally change their brain biochemically over time. There are MRI images that confirmed this. We can (hypothetically) use logic and reason to control our behavior in spite of the medical disorder - but that doesn't seem to be working reliably. Before, when I merely relabeled the dysfunction as "The Beast" it was never enough for me---perhaps because it never made logical sense. I knew that the beast arose from the Limbic Brain but I never was able to vilify my own beast enough. Understanding that it is a medical condition basically gives me no excuses---apart from suicidal tendencies--to keep being obsessive and compulsive. One key is what jar used to always say to me---that I preferred fantasy over reality. I have met the enemy and he is I. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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