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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 277 of 451 (766992)
08-25-2015 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by ringo
08-18-2015 12:07 PM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
Ringo writes:
The gospel is in the gospels, purportedly in the words of Jesus Himself - who according to YOUR theology is God Himself, who ought to know what He's talking about.
And who were His audience? Whom was He sent for?
Matt 15:21-28 writes:
Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon.
22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."
23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.
26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."
28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
The Spirit of God is timeless...eternal. And yet Jesus functioned as a human in time, during certain times, events, and people. He knew--at this point in time---that he was sent specifically to the lost sheep of Israel. We can speculate what the message would have been had Jesus spoken to the gentiles...as paul did. Only those with great faith...an ear to hear, as it were...would receive the message.
The Fishermen whom Jesus chose...as well as the people of Israel...had no clue the purpose nor meaning of Jesus Christ for the whole world.
Matt. 16:21,22 writes:
"From that time forth began Jesus to show unto His disciples, how that He must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
The message never really changed. It was expanded upon as people began to get an idea of The BIG Picture.[/qs]
ringo writes:
It never fails to amuse me how you believers are so eager to throw out what Jesus said.
I'm not throwing anything out. Im simply pointing out that Paul's purpose and ministry were not at odds with Jesus. The message is the same today, but with progressive revelation. We no longer stone adulterers and homosexuals,for example. We recognize the human propensity to demand rights and avoid responsibilities. There is a right way and a wrong way to do good works. It is always by faith. Granted actions speak louder than words and works are evidence of faith. My point is that doing good works is not a matter of boosted self awareness or esteem. It is awareness of who He is....working through us.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by ringo, posted 08-18-2015 12:07 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by ringo, posted 08-25-2015 12:48 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 279 of 451 (767093)
08-26-2015 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by ringo
08-18-2015 12:07 PM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
ringo writes:
Paul wrote commentaries on the gospel; he was not God, so his words automatically have less value; they're second-hand. Oswald Chambers, et al., wrote commentaries on commentaries; their words are third hand.
And yet didnt you once say that the message is more important than the messenger? IF what you say can be considered as possibly true, Jesus, Paul, and Oswald Chambers all ought to be judged by their words. Paul never contradicted Jesus, by the way.
Something had to knock old Saul off his high horse...and that "something" was the same Spirit that Jesus has.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by ringo, posted 08-18-2015 12:07 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by ringo, posted 08-26-2015 11:53 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 296 of 451 (775215)
12-30-2015 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
08-25-2004 1:20 AM


What Is Christianity Remix
jar writes:
It's pretty obvious that many of the posters here are Christians, yet seem to hold vastly different ideas of what Christianity means. Perhaps it would be good if those who called themselves Christian defined their personal concept of Christianity.
I believe that there is a Creator of all seen and unseen...an overseer of the universe who is far greater than we can imagine yet Who opened a communion with humans...though we be ants on a dust speck. I believe that Jesus was with God in the beginning. Jesus is Gods character expressed through a human vessel for the purpose of God for humanity. I believe that humanity has a purpose and that we were given brains (and neocortexes) for a reason. Though we are animals, we find God through emotion and reason rather than instinct. I believe that other forms of life know Him through instinct yet not through emotion or logic. I believe that the Bible is inspired through men who were inspired by God and not simply out for their own agendas, although...being human, they showed some selfish traits.
I am aware of the fact that I tend to prefer (and even imagine) a God whom favors humanity over other life forms and admit that this is illogical from a neutral observers perspective.
jar writes:
This is not meant as much as a debate as a question and answer session.
I'll try and be polite.
jar writes:
hopefully this will not descend to quote mining the Bible or other sources since there are quotes to support any and all positions.
Duly noted, though I hope you understand my position on redactors and human authors regarding the Bible(s).
jar writes:
For me a short summary would be:
In the beginning, billions and billions of years ago, GOD created this universe. Most likely, the primordial singularity was a thought of GOD.
This may not be the only universe and if there are other universes, they are within GOD and He is within them.
GOD is. The God of the Hebrew, the GOD of the Muslims, in fact all of the various GODs out there are GOD.
I agree with your first two beliefs yet disagree with the third. There is only One GOD regardless of how many "GODS" are imagined by humanity. There is no reason for there to be more than One, unless you support the idea that GOD appears to cultures as they imagine Him to be. I suppose it would be theoretically possible...though as our forum member Jon points out, Mohammed is not the same type of prophet as Jesus is. I believe that Jesus is in communion with and actually a character of GOD, and hesitate to grant any other cultural figures similar status.
jar writes:
Two thousand years ago Jesus lived and died for ALL mankind. The promise given, the gift of salvation, was not just for Christians but for ALL. It includes, Jews and Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists, Atheists and Agnostics.
I agree that this is logical. The gift is for everyone.
jar writes:
The only conditions are twofold (with the second commandment being a two part one), Love GOD; Love others and love yourself. You may not succeed, but to be saved you have to try to live up to those commandments.
I agree that we all have to try. Try our best in life, even if we are not believers. As a believer, however, I believe that we are incapable of approaching GOD without His Grace. I don't believe that GOD sends anyone to Hell. I believe that humans are incapable of fully loving GOD or each other. I understand the arguments against the idea of Original Sin, but would call it imperfection. Humans are, in my belief, incapable of perfection in,of,or through ourselves. This does not absolve us of duty, however. I don't believe that God simply expects us to trust Him for salvation while living a selfish life.
1.61803 writes:
...God and Jesus have been replaced as the objects of worship and the Bible has taken they're place for many Christians.
What gets me is that many whom profess Biblical Inerrancy are horrible advertisements for Jesus..or GOD, for that matter. Its almost as if they are agents of Satan. As for my beliefs on GOD versus Satan, I believe that God initially created a free willed Lucifer who chose to actualize what beforehand had been only potential evil. I believe that GOD allowed Hell to exist for those who freely denied His Spirit. I DONT believe that God sends anyone to Hell. To those who argue that freewill does NOT truly exist, I will agree insomuch as you dont have a right to become Godlike yourselves. In that context, true freewill does NOT exist.
jar writes:
Christians, if you are out there, how about stepping up and explaining what your view of Christianity is?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jar, posted 08-25-2004 1:20 AM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 297 of 451 (775216)
12-30-2015 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by ringo
08-26-2015 11:53 AM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
ringo writes:
Any change in focus is a change in the message and Paul certainly changed the focus. If you want "the real message", why are you so opposed to going to the original instead of Paul's paraphrase?
IF all writings...messages...were written by men, what makes the first one any better than the second or the third? What makes Matthew better than Romans? Its just as easy to believe that one author writes inspired words from God as it is to believe that Jesus is Gods spokesman---if we even believe that the red letter words are inerrant.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by ringo, posted 08-26-2015 11:53 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by ringo, posted 12-30-2015 2:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 300 of 451 (775326)
12-31-2015 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by Bob Bobber
12-31-2015 2:55 AM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
Bobber writes:
Justification is God’s gift! To say your works have anything at all to do with God’s gift declaration of righteousness is to slap the giver in the face. Remember, we were given our righteous standing as a free gift.
I agree with this. The standard argument around here, however, is that we humans are expected to try and do our best and that our behavior will be judged in the end. In other words, it is argued that we are judged by what we actually do rather than simply what we profess or believe.
I value the Pauline Epistles more than some of our other members. They claim that Paul was attempting to market a new brand and build a "franchise".
They may argue that I value Paul's message of Grace because it is an "easier sell" than for me to actually try and do my best.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 2:55 AM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 11:29 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 306 of 451 (775345)
12-31-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Bob Bobber
12-31-2015 12:55 PM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
So what is everyone's point of view on this reconciliation, sin not an issue anymore?
Sin is always an issue. Its just not leading to eternal condemnation as it originally would have done.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 12:55 PM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 2:02 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 317 of 451 (776519)
01-15-2016 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by Bob Bobber
12-31-2015 11:29 AM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
Oddly, I think that Bob Bobber is intuitively right on this one. i always liked this logic, for whatever reason.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 11:29 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 321 of 451 (779577)
03-06-2016 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by jar
06-25-2015 8:40 AM


The Hills Are Alive
jar writes:
How is Jesus alive? How can we differentiate between Jesus being alive and Superman being alive?
Believe it or not, I remembered this question---even though I never answered it in 2015. Tonight, while checking in with my facebook social media, I was introduced to an online article by one of my high school classmates who is now a film producer in Hong Kong.
The article, Icons Matter by Michael Critzer, explains how important it is--at least from his viewpoint--that cultural icons maintain the character that they were initially created with,rather than be changed at the whim of a new author.
quote:
If filmmakers want to tell a story about the realistic struggles of popular stars, then they should choose an appropriate character or create one for their purposes. Folklore, our culture’s mythology, is a reflection of the values and principles of our culture. It’s not malleable on a storyteller’s whim. If you take a beloved, safe, and moral character and corrupt his universe until he’s broken and morally ambiguous, you’ve not only corrupted the character, you’ve corrupted our culture and, through eventual repercussions, you’ve corrupted our future. You’ve taken away one of the few characters that made us reach higher just so you and audiences could feel better about not wanting to stretch.
My point is that the character of superman has been fairly consistent throughout the past 50 years, and I will argue that the character of Jesus Christ has also been rather consistent in Christianity and, I will argue, should not be changed into something less than what humanity expects.
jar writes:
Why do you think Christianity could not exist if there was no God?
Because we want and need a superhero.
jar writes:
Are we not morally obligated to admit our collective and individual failures, acknowledge, confess and repent them, attempt to make amends and try to do better in the future?
Yes, I believe that we are morally obligated. It helps to be morally obligated to a leader who is human and yet who has conquered the sins, addictions, and weaknesses that we all struggle with. It doesn't make much sense to have a leader who is no stronger than we are.
jar writes:
So what does Jesus is alive mean?
It means that the strength and the character of our leader--being stronger than anything we ourselves can emulate--saves us from failure. Jesus is alive because we allow Him to be alive in us. (if nothing else) Do you see where I am coming from?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by jar, posted 06-25-2015 8:40 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 7:59 AM Phat has replied
 Message 323 by NoNukes, posted 03-06-2016 11:24 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 325 by GDR, posted 03-06-2016 11:40 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 326 by nwr, posted 03-06-2016 1:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 346 of 451 (779686)
03-07-2016 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by jar
03-06-2016 7:59 AM


Re: The Hills Are Alive
What you are saying is that Jesus is a figure in your imagination and exists only to serve you.
The only thing that Jesus ever did that served me was His death, burial, and resurrection. My original point was that cultural heroes are in our collective imagination--though in the case of Jesus, He may well have imagined all of us long before we were even capable of imagining Him.
You disagree with me on several points. I believe that humanity is incapable of success on our own. You believe that we are charged to try and do our best and not to expect God to bail us out.
You have stated before that Jesus was a failed Messiah. I would argue that this is a Jewish viewpoint and largely not part of the Christian mythos.
I am agreeing for the sake of argument that the Jesus character is a part of all of our imaginations---but I would add that i believe He is alive apart from needing human expression to sustain a cultural legend.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 7:59 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by jar, posted 03-07-2016 9:10 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 353 of 451 (779739)
03-07-2016 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by jar
03-06-2016 10:20 PM


What IS Christianity? Its What WE choose it to be.
jar writes:
There was no point in Jesus living for thirty plus years or teaching for three years or value in anything he taught it seems.
I did'nt mean to imply that Jesus life was worthless or of no value. I agree to a large extent with your belief that Jesus life was important as were His teachings.
Even if we are incapable of success on our own are we not still expected and charged to try and do our best regardless of whether God bails us out?
Yes. But we are also expected to accept what Jesus did for us through his voluntary death and subsequent resurrection.
If Jesus is imaginary then how is Jesus alive?
Good point. Ask yourself what you believe, for there is no definite evidence apart from what you believe and personally accept.
...even under the Christian redefinition of Messiah Jesus is still a failed Messiah.
I would argue that you have chosen to believe this, and have been taught and convinced that YOU have to be your own messiah.
Jesus is to each of us how we have been taught (and believe) that He is (or for some, "was") just as you have told me that my God is a creation of my imagination,desires, and what I have been taught. Superman, as a cultural icon, became what people read, watched, or wanted him to be. The author, Michael Critzer, argued that a cultural mythos deserves to be respected and viewed in a traditional sense and that any attempts to change the nature of such a character are at best disrespectful and at worst degrading.
To question whether Jesus is alive today is disrespectful to some, and yet is on point for this particular topic. Some believe that Jesus life,character, and teachings are the primary lesson. Otrhers believe that the death, burial, and resurrection are the primary component necessary for a Christian to accept.
jar writes:
Except of course for the fact that resurrection was not at all uncommon in the Bible stories. Happened again and again to quite a few folk. There was nothing really unusual or unique about Jesus resurrection.
The primary difference is that Jesus willingly gave up His life. It was not snatched from Him. For many Christians, the resurrection was an action shared by all who accept it. Its a fresh start. Its a general atonement for everyone. Mind you, i'm not disagreeing with your emphasis on personal responsibility.
jar writes:
Thank God no one took my sin debt.
I can respect that you want to be personally responsible for making your own amends. Some of us believe that this is impossible for any human to fully do.
You may argue that we are still charged to try to do our best, and I've no problem with this as long as it doesn't border on the ridiculous. Sometimes, we just need to admit that we need help. Drop the ego. If a man owes an enormous debt that could never be reasonably repaid, it is not right to expect him to work the rest of his life simply to attempt repayment on an untouchable sum. God knew this, and gave us parables of debt forgiveness. On the other hand, once-and-for-all atonement paid by God does not absolve us of responsibility.
Of course, on the other hand, I can fully respect your argument that we should be taught to be responsible and not rely on God to simply do everything for us---as if we were eternal infants.
Edited by Phat, :

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by jar, posted 03-07-2016 4:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 354 of 451 (779740)
03-07-2016 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by ringo
03-07-2016 10:39 AM


Re: The Hills Are Alive
Ringo writes:
So are the gospels.
There is a difference between an author who creates characters,stories, and plots based entirely upon the authors imagination and a report on what an author actually sees or hears form those directly at the scene.
The jury will likely be forever "out" on this one. Ive read arguments from both sides.
Personally, I believe the eyewitness side as opposed to the storytelling,ulterior motive side.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by ringo, posted 03-07-2016 10:39 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by ringo, posted 03-08-2016 10:46 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 363 of 451 (779869)
03-09-2016 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 362 by ringo
03-08-2016 10:46 AM


Just The Facts, Ma'am
How would you tell the difference?
Perhaps its impossible to actually prove it. Perhaps it is all a matter of belief.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by ringo, posted 03-08-2016 10:46 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 364 of 451 (779871)
03-09-2016 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 357 by jar
03-07-2016 7:46 PM


Re: What IS Christianity? Its What WE choose it to be.
jar writes:
...Christianity is not a belief but rather a whole collection of different beliefs, all claiming the mantle of Christianity. There is Christianity as you market it, Christianity as Phat markets it, Christianity as Faith markets it, Christianity as Bob Bobber markets it, even Christianity as I try to market it.
What, if anything, was Jesus marketing? Is there any evidence that Jesus would have approved and/or disapproved of Pauls new religion"?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by jar, posted 03-07-2016 7:46 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by jar, posted 03-09-2016 8:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 367 of 451 (779940)
03-09-2016 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by GDR
03-09-2016 10:01 PM


Sick Leave
We all look forward to being astonished, amazed, and humbled

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by GDR, posted 03-09-2016 10:01 PM GDR has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 387 of 451 (780481)
03-15-2016 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by Faith
03-15-2016 4:12 AM


Re: Jesus is not God
Faith writes:
There's actually a lot of evidence in the New Testament itself that Jesus regarded Himself as God incarnate. The Messiah as described in the Old Testament was also clearly to be God Himself. But I have a feeling this is no longer the topic of interest here.
Since jar started the topic, the parameters of discussion are his call. His whole point is that Christianity is not specific to one set of beliefs, and reading down the comments in this topic confirm that observation.
The Trinity itself is another topic.
I figured I would give googles massive information processing computers a shot at this topic, so I asked the following query:
What are the minimum required beliefs in order to be classified as a Christian?...There are 11 answers. The first guy says that the following are essential doctrines.
quote:
These are the most essential doctrines of all essentials. This includes what every Christian should always be willing to die for.
  • Belief in God (there is no such thing as an atheistic Christian)
    Issues pertaining to the person and work of Christ:
  • Belief in Christ’s deity and humanity (1 John 4:2-3; Rom. 10:9)
  • Belief that you are a sinner in need of God’s mercy (1 John 1:10)
  • Belief that Christ died on the cross and rose bodily from the grave for our sins (1 Cor 15:3-4)
  • Belief that faith in Christ is necessary (John 3:16)
  • You and I would likely agree with this list,but jars basic point is that some who call themselves Christian don't believe in this stuff. And the point of his topic is that its ok.
    I think that what I first saw when I read this topic was "What is true Christianity versus what isn't." And to be honest I believe much as I did 12 years ago when this topic started. Granted I have opened my mind a bit more and taken in new information...trying to see beliefs through the eyes of others. There was a time (still occasionally) where I don't think that _______ is a real Christian because they violate extreme positions that are in my opinion necessary for salvation. To be blunt:
  • Ringo appears to believe in logic, reason, and reality and loves to try and sharpen the rest of us by contrarian argumentation. Even though he claims weak atheism, I label him agnostic because he still has an open ear in case any gods come knocking.
  • jar has convinced me that he is Christian, though he admits he is likely wrong and that any evidence besides what we *do* is irrelevant. You must admit he has a point. A person could have all of the "right" beliefs in the world and still come across as a jerk or ignorant. jar would likely argue that Christianity is about what we do and that we have no way of showing who He is apart from our actions. It is an interesting argument.
  • Faith, you have impressed me lately with the amount of study that you do regarding your personal apologetics. Critics may claim that you cling to willful ignorance regarding creationism, but to me thats not really important. What is important is how you behave towards others. I can only say that you are very human. but then again, so am I.
    Many critics insist that belief in Jesus as God is essential, but I doubt a fella would miss the bus by claiming that Jesus was human. He has God in Him to such an extent that there is no room for any demons. I cannot make the same claim regarding my own flesh. Thus, aside from trusting fully in God through Jesus for my salvation, I also try to do my best. Not to earn points, but because it is the right thing to do.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 380 by Faith, posted 03-15-2016 4:12 AM Faith has not replied

      
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