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Author Topic:   Jesus and his sacrifice is Satan’s test of man’s morality.
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 361 of 478 (776238)
01-10-2016 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Tangle
01-10-2016 6:24 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Has anybody noticed that there is no substance to this argument at all, it's only an excuse to attack a member on judgmental moralistic grounds?
Does anybody care? Of course not. That's the way everything is going these days. Destroy the reputation of a person or a class of persons and that's considered to be fair debate.
No more avoid making the debate personal, the whole thing is personal. I'm evil, or need psychiatric "help" for being a believer in the God of the Bible, period, anything I say to defend the Bible is scorned, and by extension all Bible inerrancy Christians are just as evil. Christians who behead no one, who try as well as we can to love our neighbors even against such provocations as these and so on.
I can call you evil back, for doing that to me, but at EvC all the favor is on your side. In fact I suppose this is all partly a reaction to being told that you are going to be judged for your sins anyway, the truth of which goes begging while outrage escalates.
Of course I know God wins in the end but it's sad to see the world go to Hell with such alacrity in the meantime.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Tangle, posted 01-10-2016 6:24 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by Aussie, posted 01-10-2016 8:11 PM Faith has replied
 Message 368 by Tangle, posted 01-11-2016 3:15 AM Faith has replied
 Message 372 by Admin, posted 01-11-2016 8:38 AM Faith has replied

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 275
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 362 of 478 (776240)
01-10-2016 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Faith
01-10-2016 7:26 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Faith. You are defending the slaughter of babies as good and perfect justice. In this, you are deeply morally compromised.
If you call our shock and outrage about indiscriminate carnage of children "being personal," we cant help that.
Your words are indistinguishable from ISIS.
God help you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 01-10-2016 7:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 01-10-2016 8:27 PM Aussie has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 363 of 478 (776241)
01-10-2016 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by Aussie
01-10-2016 8:11 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Your post should be framed and mounted at the head of the thread as exactly what I'm talking about. Doesn't bother you one bit to attack another human being from your own crabbed twisted jaundiced "moral" perspective, in a way that's worse than any Thought Police invasion of personal freedom up to this time that I can think of. I've said nothing that defends "killing babies," what I defend is the sovereign just God's determination of righteous judgment and you twist that into the accusation that I'm defending murder. Kinda reminds me of the propaganda they threw at the Jews once-upon-a-dreary-time. Such an egregious intrusion on another human being's freedom of thought and speech is beyond even a constitutional issue, it's exactly what civilized people would have scorned doing to anyone not so long ago. Actually as I think about it such attacks should be criminally liable. But perverted idiosyncratic self-righteousness rules now. This is oddly enough one of the signs that we are in the very last days. I probably won't be around for the mass beheadings, though I'll be sorry to miss all the excitement.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Aussie, posted 01-10-2016 8:11 PM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by jar, posted 01-10-2016 8:33 PM Faith has replied
 Message 373 by Admin, posted 01-11-2016 8:41 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 379 by Aussie, posted 01-11-2016 1:05 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 364 of 478 (776242)
01-10-2016 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Faith
01-10-2016 8:27 PM


as a Christian
What folk are condemning Faith is the belief that the God you try to market is anything other than a vile, evil entity that every thinking Christian as well as any moral individual should oppose. It is your attempt to market such a villain as ever being justified that is the issue.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 01-10-2016 8:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Faith, posted 01-10-2016 8:35 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 365 of 478 (776243)
01-10-2016 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by jar
01-10-2016 8:33 PM


Or really as a fake Christian
My GOODNESS, jar, I think you hit the nail right on its scabby little head.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by jar, posted 01-10-2016 8:33 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by jar, posted 01-10-2016 10:07 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 366 of 478 (776247)
01-10-2016 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Faith
01-10-2016 8:35 PM


Re: as a fake Christian
I do need to point out that when you use re: in your header yet change what the original text said you are just doing the same thing you do with what is actually written in the Bible; that is to misrepresent what was really written.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Faith, posted 01-10-2016 8:35 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by Faith, posted 01-11-2016 2:41 AM jar has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 367 of 478 (776254)
01-11-2016 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by jar
01-10-2016 10:07 PM


altering titles
Gosh, two lies in one sentence. However, I agree with you about the re: even if not your accusation about it, so I will remove it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by jar, posted 01-10-2016 10:07 PM jar has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 368 of 478 (776257)
01-11-2016 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Faith
01-10-2016 7:26 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Faith writes:
No more avoid making the debate personal, the whole thing is personal. I'm evil, or need psychiatric "help" for being a believer in the God of the Bible, period, anything I say to defend the Bible is scorned, and by extension all Bible inerrancy Christians are just as evil. Christians who behead no one, who try as well as we can to love our neighbors even against such provocations as these and so on.
I'm calling the murder of children by your God evil Faith, not you. Neither have I said anything about you needing psychiatric help. You're deflecting to avoid the difficulty of reconciling such evil acts with a loving god.
It's such things that have led most Christians to set inerrancy aside and reform their religion, a process that has not yet happened with the Koran. You see why we make the connection? And the dangers of believing these horrible stories?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 01-10-2016 7:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 01-11-2016 3:47 AM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 369 of 478 (776258)
01-11-2016 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by Tangle
01-11-2016 3:15 AM


Re: misrepresentation
I don't think I said you accused me of needing psychiatric help but somebody did. Oh, Aussie. Sorry, I probably should have made that a generic reply instead of addressing it to you.
I'm calling the murder of children by your God evil Faith, not you.
And I am strenuously disagreeing with you. You are calling justice murder. Sorry, you don't get to tell God how to run His creation. The idea that you can come along and say such things to someone who has been a Christian for almost thirty years, and by extension to a two-thousand-year history of millions of Christians who all believed the same text, and accuse us of something that never entered our minds or influenced our behavior in the way you suppose it should, is high-handedly self-righteously judgmental in the extreme.
You're deflecting to avoid the difficulty of reconciling such evil acts with a loving god.
I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with reconciling God's judgments of evil acts with His being a loving God. None whatever. You and others here are having a kneejerk self-righteous moralistic fit against God, and against people who couldn't deserve it less, and I refuse to give you the slightest credence. We are to learn from God. Judging God is off-the-charts human arrogance.
It's such things that have led most Christians to set inerrancy aside and reform their religion, a process that has not yet happened with the Koran. You see why we make the connection? And the dangers of believing these horrible stories?
THERE IS NO CONNECTION WHATEVER. The Koran has inspired an entire history of murderous tyrannical actions against nonMuslims; the Bible has inspired nothing but constructive peaceable actions in the world, WITH MINOR EXCEPTIONS THAT ARE EASILY ATTRIBUTED TO ERROR, NOT THE BIBLE. If you point to the spectre of the Crusades and the Inquisition let me point out that all that occurred during the Dark Ages when the Bible was NOT read or taken as authority and in the case of the Inquisition when it was the Bible believers who were most persecuted. You do NOT know what you are talking about. You and the others here are inventing a totally bogus excuse to condemn Christians on the basis of NOTHING WHATEVER, making up a disgustingly bogus moral equivalence with Islam yet. There is no "danger" whatever in believing the Old Testament and you have no evidence of such a danger, it's all invented by emotional outrage. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. In two thousand years I would bet that NOT ONE SINGLE TRUE BIBLE BELIEVER HAS EVER BEEN MOTIVATED TO DO VIOLENCE OR HARM TO ANYONE BECAUSE OF THE HISTORICAL INCIDENTS IN THE O.T. THAT ARE EXERCISING YOU. This is a ridiculous trumped-up set of lies and I don't know why it's so easy for people to fall into it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by Tangle, posted 01-11-2016 3:15 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by Tangle, posted 01-11-2016 4:07 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 371 by Tangle, posted 01-11-2016 6:30 AM Faith has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 370 of 478 (776259)
01-11-2016 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by Faith
01-11-2016 3:47 AM


Re: misrepresentation
Faith writes:
....the Bible has inspired nothing but constructive peaceable actions in the world.
Oh please Faith, now you're denying the entire history of Christianity.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 01-11-2016 3:47 AM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 371 of 478 (776260)
01-11-2016 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by Faith
01-11-2016 3:47 AM


Re: misrepresentation
Faith writes:
There is no "danger" whatever in believing the Old Testament and you have no evidence of such a danger, it's all invented by emotional outrage. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. In two thousand years I would bet that NOT ONE SINGLE TRUE BIBLE BELIEVER HAS EVER BEEN MOTIVATED TO DO VIOLENCE OR HARM TO ANYONE BECAUSE OF THE HISTORICAL INCIDENTS IN THE O.T. THAT ARE EXERCISING YOU. This is a ridiculous trumped-up set of lies and I don't know why it's so easy for people to fall into it.
As usual you're in denial of obvious truths.
Below is a fairly balanced wiki on historical Christian violence. Like most religions, Christianity and the bible has been used as the justification for many, many violent acts. This is not a matter of controversy, but history. Please note that I'm not saying that Christianity or you are evil, I'm saying that because the bible contains many acts of atrocities and genocides sanctioned by or carried out by its god, like the Koran, it has been used to justify human atrocities. This inerrancy nonsense is a very dangerous and wrong concept.
Christianity and violence - Wikipedia

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 01-11-2016 3:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Faith, posted 01-11-2016 11:01 AM Tangle has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 372 of 478 (776262)
01-11-2016 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Faith
01-10-2016 7:26 PM


Moderator Requests
Faith writes:
Has anybody noticed that there is no substance to this argument at all, it's only an excuse to attack a member on judgmental moralistic grounds?
Could you please quote the text you're responding to so people can understand the context? I recently posted at length to you about quoting, see Message 262. If you have questions about how to quote easily and efficiently just ask.
To everyone: Please keep the debate impersonal. A little bit of indirection can go a long way, referring to statements or opinions instead of to the persons themselves.
Also, except for you prophets out there, please don't go deciding for God who here will be visited by his judgment.
Request: Let's clarify the part of the discussion that's about the killing of babies. Someone please identify the specific Biblical passage. Maybe it's this one:
Joshua 6:21: And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
In any case, please someone identify the specific passage or passages in the Bible that are under scrutiny.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 01-10-2016 7:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 01-11-2016 11:07 AM Admin has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 373 of 478 (776263)
01-11-2016 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by Faith
01-10-2016 8:27 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Faith writes:
Your post should be framed and mounted at the head of the thread as exactly what I'm talking about. Doesn't bother you one bit to attack another human being from your own crabbed twisted jaundiced "moral" perspective, in a way that's worse than any Thought Police invasion of personal freedom up to this time that I can think of. I've said nothing that defends "killing babies," what I defend is the sovereign just God's determination of righteous judgment and you twist that into the accusation that I'm defending murder. Kinda reminds me of the propaganda they threw at the Jews once-upon-a-dreary-time. Such an egregious intrusion on another human being's freedom of thought and speech is beyond even a constitutional issue, it's exactly what civilized people would have scorned doing to anyone not so long ago. Actually as I think about it such attacks should be criminally liable. But perverted idiosyncratic self-righteousness rules now. This is oddly enough one of the signs that we are in the very last days. I probably won't be around for the mass beheadings, though I'll be sorry to miss all the excitement.
Please keep your focus on the topic. If you don't want your opinions examined and commented upon you shouldn't be participating in a discussion board. Last warning.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 01-10-2016 8:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 374 of 478 (776278)
01-11-2016 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Tangle
01-11-2016 6:30 AM


Christian? violence
There's nothing "balanced" about that article at all. I scanned it, finding that as is always the case the incidents are almost exclusively Catholic-originated against Protestants. In short the article is predominantly about Catholic violence, not Christian violence.
It's clear this is going to be the case when the Crusades and the Inquisition are included as "Christian" which they were not. They were antichristian and attacked the true Bible Christians. I know you want to insist on the typical unfounded assumption that Roman Catholicism is Christian, but I won't accept it because it simply is NOT Christian and it's offensive that I get blamed for what they did, and usually did to true Christians.
Since Catholicism was rejected by the Reformers as Antichrist that means we're talking about Christians being attacked by an antichristian organization, which is very much the way it has been since the beginning. In other words the article is not talking about CHRISTIAN "violence" at all, unless you mean violence AGAINST Christians.
There are some topics that aren't that clear of course, so I'll leave it to you if you want to discuss any of them since I would have to do more research than I'm up to at the moment. But if you identify a particular topic you think proves me wrong I'll do what I can to rally to the cause. However, hm, that would be such a small number of issues the whole idea of Christian violence is as good as falsified.
ABE: Also, when corporal punishment and the death penalty are listed as "violence" the article has gone so far over into the land of political correctness the topic has been completely lost, and now I'm inclined to dismiss the whole thing as a piece of biased rubbish.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Tangle, posted 01-11-2016 6:30 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by Tangle, posted 01-11-2016 12:50 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 375 of 478 (776279)
01-11-2016 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Admin
01-11-2016 8:38 AM


Re: Moderator Requests
You say to ask about easy quoting so I'm asking. I had the idea from your earlier note on the subject that using the Peek mode should solve the problem, but all it solves is providing the quote codes for the statements already quoted; I still have to insert codes for the new post, unless I'm not understanding this rightly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Admin, posted 01-11-2016 8:38 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by Admin, posted 01-11-2016 12:22 PM Faith has replied

  
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