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Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Corvid ecologists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
You mean according to some of the sources Google found. If you read more carefully you will find that the basis of this claim is the Old World sparrows are closely related to weaver finches while the New World sparrows are not.
However, it seems clear to me that the term "sparrow" was originally applied to the Old World group (which is why they are also called "true sparrows"). So it would be more accurate to say that the New World sparrows aren't really sparrows.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1025 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined:
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A bit of Google has answered my own questions. Encyclopaedia Britannica defines a weaver-finch as a member of the waxbill family Estrildidae. This is a tropical clade which is, according to Wikipedia, sometimes classed as a subfamily of the Passeridae. Still seems to me that calling house-sparrows weaver finches is confusing a topic already confusing enough.
'Sparrow', incidentally, is cognate with the Cornish word for 'crow' and the Greek word for 'starling'. Makes you realise why they invented the whole idea of scientific names in the first place!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
House sparrows are real sparrows (genus passer). ... Curiously, in my book (NatGeo Field Guide to Birds of N. America) American sparrow species are on pages 386-407 in the "Grosbeaks, Buntings and Sparrows" section, and none of them are Family Passidae, while the Eurasian Tree Sparrow (Passer montanus) and the European House Sparrow (Passer domesticus) are on page 432-433 under "weavers" between "weaver finches" and "finches" ... in the finch section of my book, with Tanagers and Orioles in between them: not closely related to American sparrows. Both of them are introduced species and thus are not native, and certainly not American sparrows. So I'll give you "weaver" as opposed to "weaver finches" (like the Java sparrow (Padda oryzivora), another introduced species). One need only look at the nesting behavior (communal nests all woven together) to see that they are distinctly different from American sparrows. They are invasive, opportunistic, and mob bullies chasing away other birds, and taking over cavity nests from other American birds (blue birds, tree swallow, etc). They are destructive and worm their way into small opening in houses. So I have little love for them. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I think you've got muddled. Sparrow weavers are African birds closely related neither to sparrows nor to the birds you call sparrows in America. My book calls them all "sparrows" and there are lots of native families and geni, all different from the introduced european and eurasian ones that are in the Weaver Finch\Weaver\Finch section as opposed to the Grosbeak\Bunting\Sparrow section for all the "birds you call sparrows in America." With Blackbirds, Orioles and Tanagers between them. If this is muddled, it is so in my book "The National Geographic Field Guide to Birds of N. America" which I find difficult to accept. But this is all aside form the Corvid ecologist issue. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: The explanation is simple. American "sparrows" are not sparrows. They were likely called sparrows for their resemblance to the true sparrows, but that hardly gives them an exclusive claim to the name over the European birds.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Inuder ezempal uh da Anglith nogh noin dare un langig.
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kjsimons Member Posts: 821 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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One of my favorite members of the Corvid family are the Florida Scrub Jays. The are extremely friendly and curious, landing near or on you to check you out if you wander into their territory. I've seem them hide acorns or pine nuts in a shallow hole then carefully covering them up and pulling leaves and other material over their stash.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The explanation is simple. American "sparrows" are not sparrows. They were likely called sparrows for their resemblance to the true sparrows, but that hardly gives them an exclusive claim to the name over the European birds. Or to true Scotsman ... So "sparrow" is just a general nomenclature for small seed eating birds and has no real taxonomic basis. Like "warbler" ... or "seagull" ... The point remains that they are not welcome at my feeders ... neither are starlings, another greedy pest introduced from England, because they chase off and displace native species. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
One of my favorite members of the Corvid family are the Florida Scrub Jays. The are extremely friendly and curious, landing near or on you to check you out if you wander into their territory. I've seem them hide acorns or pine nuts in a shallow hole then carefully covering them up and pulling leaves and other material over their stash. Exactly the behavior in the article that spreads forests into new areas. I've seen similar with Canadian/Gray Jays (Perisoreus canadensis) and Steller's Jay (Cyanocitta stelleri), the latter taking bits of cheese from my hand and burying them in sand. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: Most common bird names have more to do with resemblance than taxonomy. However, the term "sparrow" is not completely divorced from taxonomy. Which is why we say that the House Sparrow is a sparrow while the "Hedge Sparrow" is not.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4344 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.9
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I hate common names for organisms; Dragonflies, Birds, Bugs. If they were common everyone would know them.
This is my backyard Corvid, a Western Scrub-Jay, Aphelocoma californica, that comes to my photo workshop door and begs for peanuts. It is from a 2015 brood and I noticed when it first started coming to the feeders on the patio that it did not startle when it could see me moving around through the sliding door. After a couple weeks of moving the peanuts closer to the door and then inside it has gotten more gutsy. It is still very wary and I have to sit perfectly still.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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ramoss Member (Idle past 612 days) Posts: 3228 Joined:
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When we moved into the area I live in now, back oh about 50 years ago now, my mother was walking around the reservoir across the road from our house, and went back to my father and said 'Guess what I saw. I saw some Ranunculus abortivus. ' My father looked at her puzzled and said 'Buttercup???
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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""His desire to profess his final and perpetual vows - was it not akin to the motive of the cat who became an ornithologist? - so that he might glorify his own ornithophagy, esoterically devouring Penthestes atricapillus but never eating chickadees."
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped! |
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Astrophile Member (Idle past 128 days) Posts: 92 From: United Kingdom Joined: |
neither are starlings, another greedy pest introduced from England, because they chase off and displace native species. So that's where they've gone. Forty years ago there used to be great flocks of starlings where I live, but now they've disappeared; it's years since I saw a single one.
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