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Author Topic:   Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread
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Message 826 of 1639 (778468)
02-20-2016 11:33 AM


Topic Reminder
Digressions into sub-topics are fine, but they shouldn't come to dominate discussion. This thread is about the primaries. At some point the digressions should be tied into the views of actual candidates and/or the electorate.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 827 of 1639 (778470)
02-20-2016 12:55 PM


A story told by Trump on the campaign trail:
Donald Trump cites story of general who dipped bullets in pigs' blood to deter Muslims | CNN Politics
quote:
Trump on Friday cited an apocryphal story about a U.S. general who purportedly dipped bullets in pigs' blood to execute Muslim prisoners a century ago in an effort to deter Islamic terrorism.
Speaking at a rally in North Charleston, South Carolina, Trump reiterated his claim that the U.S. should "go much further" than waterboarding suspected terrorists, telling the story of Gen. John Pershing in the Philippines, who Trump said captured 50 Muslim prisoners a century ago and dipped 50 bullets in blood.
"And he lined up the 50 people and they shot 49 of those 50 people, and he said to the 50th, you go back to your people and you tell them what happened -- and in 25 years there wasn't a problem," Trump said to the audience, which grew quiet as he told the story.
So we better start getting tough or we won't have a country".

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

Replies to this message:
 Message 833 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 2:38 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 828 of 1639 (778471)
02-20-2016 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 822 by Faith
02-20-2016 10:56 AM


Re: gay marriage travesty
Never said any such thing. Criticize him all you want, but do it with the facts and stop the PC propaganda namecalling.
Except that criticizing him about his position on waterboarding is a criticism based on the facts. Nobody is simply applying labels without also offering justification. Your complaint is just an excuse to ignore the arguments. What do you think about Trump relating the story about solving problems by killing 49 captured prisoners in cold blood? How about Trump's calling people who disagree with him stupid?
Almost all of the Republican candidates have tough policies on immigration. Most of them manage to express those policies without inflammatory xenophobic speech. Yet you find something to admire in his speech.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 822 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 10:56 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 831 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 2:27 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 832 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 2:32 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 829 of 1639 (778474)
02-20-2016 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 821 by Faith
02-20-2016 10:54 AM


Re: Trump On Torture
What is it with you religious right wackaloons and the desire for martyrdom?
Well the answer is easy. There is no way to logically support your beliefs so if your martyr yourself at least you will have some sort of spiritual justification.
The amazing thing is that what you claim the government is going to do to you is exactly what you want done to people that don't hold your beliefs. The thing you and your ilk don't understand is that the other side has no desire to hurt or martyr you because of your beliefs. The projection is very disturbing. You will notice we only fight back when you try to impose your belief structure on others.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 821 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 10:54 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 830 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 2:20 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 830 of 1639 (778477)
02-20-2016 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by Theodoric
02-20-2016 1:11 PM


Re: Trump On Torture
What is it with you religious right wackaloons and the desire for martyrdom?
Well the answer is easy. There is no way to logically support your beliefs so if your martyr yourself at least you will have some sort of spiritual justification.
The amazing thing is that what you claim the government is going to do to you is exactly what you want done to people that don't hold your beliefs. The thing you and your ilk don't understand is that the other side has no desire to hurt or martyr you because of your beliefs. The projection is very disturbing. You will notice we only fight back when you try to impose your belief structure on others.
Golly what a rant. The fact is Christians have already been punished for opposing gay marriage, with fines and the loss of businesses. It's not something that's GOING TO happen, it HAS happened, because of the law requiring acceptance of gay marriage. As long as no one challenges us on it we won't be punished (it's interesting that no Muslim businesses have been challenged although they could be because they also reject gay marriage), but all you have to do is ask us to do something to help celebrate a gay marriage and sue us for refusing and there you have it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2016 1:11 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 834 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2016 2:43 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 831 of 1639 (778478)
02-20-2016 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 828 by NoNukes
02-20-2016 1:06 PM


Re: gay marriage travesty
Except that criticizing him about his position on waterboarding is a criticism based on the facts. Nobody is simply applying labels without also offering justification.
That's not true. I didn't get to find out what waterboarding actually does until way into the excuse for a discussion about it that went on here, then finally somebody informed me, inadvertently I think, that it gives the sensation of suffocation, and I suppose could even lead to suffocation. How was not discussed. Nor was any opinion by experts offered. No facts about waterboarding until then, just a lot of rhetoric about how evil Trump is for supporting it, how unchristian it proves him to be and all that typical ad hominem leftist propaganda rot. And by the way once you've applied the label evil or the equivalent to a political opponent how would you go about justifying it anyway?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 828 by NoNukes, posted 02-20-2016 1:06 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 836 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-20-2016 2:56 PM Faith has replied
 Message 853 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-20-2016 5:22 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 832 of 1639 (778480)
02-20-2016 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 828 by NoNukes
02-20-2016 1:06 PM


Re: gay marriage travesty
Almost all of the Republican candidates have tough policies on immigration. Most of them manage to express those policies without inflammatory xenophobic speech. Yet you find something to admire in his speech.
I could be wrong since I don't listen to all the debates or political rhetoric, but my impression is that nobody is as bold about it as Trump and I like his boldness and his willingness to face down the PC accusations such as "xenophobic" that are hurled at him.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 828 by NoNukes, posted 02-20-2016 1:06 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 833 of 1639 (778481)
02-20-2016 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 827 by NoNukes
02-20-2016 12:55 PM


Oh, how EVIL of him! That IS your point, isn't it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 827 by NoNukes, posted 02-20-2016 12:55 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 834 of 1639 (778482)
02-20-2016 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 830 by Faith
02-20-2016 2:20 PM


Re: Trump On Torture
There are laws against discrimination. The laws protect christians too.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 830 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 2:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 842 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 3:55 PM Theodoric has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2934 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 835 of 1639 (778484)
02-20-2016 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 684 by Faith
02-18-2016 5:22 PM


qRe: Trump calls out Pope for saying illegal immigration is Christian
faith writes:
Actually it's the Pope who isn't Christian, he's the major candidate for Antichrist, according to the Protestant Reformers. But he does bring out the unlovely fact that it's the Roman Antichrist Church that has done the most to further the illegal immigration across our southern border, by inciting them in their homeland to cross the border and by providing sanctuary after they've crossed it. I wonder if that could be because the vast majority of those crossing the southern border are Catholics?
Were the "Protestant Reformers" referring to Pope Francis or all of the popes as Antichrist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 684 by Faith, posted 02-18-2016 5:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 841 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 3:51 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 836 of 1639 (778485)
02-20-2016 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 831 by Faith
02-20-2016 2:27 PM


Re: gay marriage travesty
That's not true. I didn't get to find out what waterboarding actually does until way into the excuse for a discussion about it that went on here, then finally somebody informed me, inadvertently I think, that it gives the sensation of suffocation, and I suppose could even lead to suffocation. How was not discussed. Nor was any opinion by experts offered. No facts about waterboarding until then, just a lot of rhetoric about how evil Trump is for supporting it, how unchristian it proves him to be and all that typical ad hominem leftist propaganda rot.
How were we to guess that you were participating in a heated discussion of a thing without even knowing what it was or the first thing about it?
... oh, right, long experience of your behavior.
Are there any other key terms you need defining? This is a Donald Trump:
And this is a Republican Party:
Or possibly a flock of vultures, I sometimes get them mixed up.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 831 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 2:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 840 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 3:50 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 837 of 1639 (778486)
02-20-2016 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 814 by Dr Adequate
02-20-2016 9:21 AM


Re: Nomination for PC post of the thread
I would like to nominate Theodoric's Message 729 as the most perfect example of PC in this discussion ...
I note that you haven't provided any arguments or evidence to suggest that what he wrote isn't actually true.
My effort in this entire discussion has been to object to Political Correctness as the left's favorite form of "debate" and to try to show how it operates in the thinking of the posters on this topic here, when discussing Trump's views of illegal immigration, or the Right's views in general for that matter, or the Right's view of gay marriage, or even what Trump said about waterboarding. I tried to make it clear that I'm not into discussing the issues themselves, I just want to get across that PC is a pernicious form of thought and doesn't belong in any intellectual discourse of any kind. Yes, the issues should be discussed instead, but that's not my purpose here, my purpose is to highlight the evil doctrine of PC and how the left uses it all the time as if it were a legitimate form of debate. And Theodoric's post is a brilliant piece of Perfect PC so I had to give it a prize.
Let me try again to get across what I've been saying all along:
  • PC pretends to read the mind of the opponent, and imputes evil motives to them. In most contexts even leftists would agree that this is improper in debate, but not when it comes to left versus right debate.
  • So for instance we hear how evil Trump is for supporting waterboarding, rather than merely wrong, with facts offered to show why wrong. We're told his motive is "revenge," as if you can read his mind, not simply the desire to find a method to extract information that would support national security. And if he still thinks it acceptable he's really really evil and very decidedly not merely wrong. In fact he's a "sociopath." And you think this sort of rhetoric belongs in political discourse. And you are asking if such accusations are the truth?
  • PC for instance labels those who oppose illegal immigration "racists" and "xenophobes" and "haters" as if you know their innermost thoughts. Their reasons for opposing it are hardly discussed, because they are dismissed as evil reasons and that's that, since you can of course read their minds and don't need to think about their reasoning as respectable rational thought at all. Again you want to know if such intrusive slanderous labels are the real truth.
  • PC labels those who oppose gay marriage as "homophobes" and "haters" and deniers of equality, even if they strongly support equality otherwise, and give no signs of the emotion of hate and have lots of homosexual friends. No, you know by the mere fact that they oppose gay marriage that they are evil people with evil sociopathic motives. You know you can read their minds.
  • It prevents civilized discourse, can even deny freedom of speech, by morally condemning and silencing people of certain opinions, instead of respectfully dealing with the opinion as the product of rational thought as civilized people used to be taught to do.
  • It is nothing but personal attack, fingerpointing moral condemnation, and doesn't belong in any debate.
  • PC creates classes of people on the basis of one-issue reductionistic "analysis" -- the good guys and the bad guys; the evil ones you disagree with, and the perfect good ones who share your views. You should know from history that those regarded as evil by enough of the self-righteous become subject to social sanctions of various degrees.
  • It is lying leftist propaganda against the right; its source is Cultural Marxism
  • Like all propaganda it uses emotion-laden terms to arouse emotional reactions of condemnation rather than reasoning intended to further thought about the issues.
  • It is a form of pernicious slander on the level of Nazi propaganda against the Jews, and you want to know if it's true?
I think I may have forgotten some other things I said about PC, so if I remember them I'll come back and add them.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 814 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-20-2016 9:21 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 838 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2016 3:42 PM Faith has replied
 Message 845 by NoNukes, posted 02-20-2016 4:18 PM Faith has replied
 Message 851 by nwr, posted 02-20-2016 5:04 PM Faith has replied
 Message 855 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-20-2016 5:38 PM Faith has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 838 of 1639 (778487)
02-20-2016 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 837 by Faith
02-20-2016 3:33 PM


Re: Nomination for PC post of the thread
So no evidence? Still stuck on assertions I see.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 837 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 3:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 839 by Faith, posted 02-20-2016 3:49 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 839 of 1639 (778488)
02-20-2016 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 838 by Theodoric
02-20-2016 3:42 PM


Re: Nomination for PC post of the thread
No wonder nobody here sees the evidence for the Flood. You don't know what evidence is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 838 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2016 3:42 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 858 by jar, posted 02-20-2016 6:13 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 840 of 1639 (778489)
02-20-2016 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 836 by Dr Adequate
02-20-2016 2:56 PM


Re: gay marriage travesty
Very nice piece of PC slander.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-20-2016 2:56 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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