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Author Topic:   Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(5)
Message 1021 of 1639 (778776)
02-24-2016 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 998 by Faith
02-23-2016 9:21 PM


Re: even terrorists when caught deserve a fair trial.
Faith writes:
All the opinion about this madeup incident is coming from current PC leftists who have an amazing inability to distinguish terrorists from innocents.
We invented court systems because we don't trust your amazing ability to distinguish guilt from innocence at a glance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 998 by Faith, posted 02-23-2016 9:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1022 of 1639 (778781)
02-24-2016 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1009 by Faith
02-24-2016 1:25 AM


Re: No, it is not at all clear that terrorists when caught deserve a fair trial.
Faith could you please actually research subjects before you spout off about them. You realize you look like a buffoon when you spout off about something you know absolutely nothing about.
Here is some actual research.
FACT CHECK: General Pershing on How to Stop Islamic Terrorists

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1009 by Faith, posted 02-24-2016 1:25 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1029 by Faith, posted 02-24-2016 12:40 PM Theodoric has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 1023 of 1639 (778785)
02-24-2016 11:51 AM


wtf?
I just can not believe Donald Trump is winning.
I realize what the alternatives are:
Ted Cruz...calcitrant, abrasive, pious nasally condecending.
Marco Rubio..repetitive,patronizing,errand boy sent by grocery clerks.
But Donald wacko Trump???
It doesn't matter what he does or what he says he just keeps gaining momentum.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

Replies to this message:
 Message 1025 by jar, posted 02-24-2016 12:02 PM 1.61803 has not replied
 Message 1035 by Pressie, posted 02-25-2016 6:04 AM 1.61803 has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1024 of 1639 (778789)
02-24-2016 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1019 by RAZD
02-24-2016 10:02 AM


Re: Meanwhile, back at the topic...
There is another reason why it is way too early to bury Bernie.
Yes. It is too early to bury Bernie, but your reasoning here escapes me. Although the two of them appeal to different Democratic factions, it is Bernies's misses that make extrapolating something from his win in NH and even the close race in Iowa somewhat dangerous. I am not willing to make any predictions until after super Tuesday, at the point somebody may have a lead, but I don't expect that lead to be insurmountable until sometime in April.
Too be specific though about my doubts about the articles reasoning: even in an open primary, people tend to vote in their party and they don't tend to simply vote for the best candidate.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1019 by RAZD, posted 02-24-2016 10:02 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1025 of 1639 (778790)
02-24-2016 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1023 by 1.61803
02-24-2016 11:51 AM


Re: wtf?
His latest was to say he wished he could punch a protester in the face.
Of course, I imagine the protester wished the wimp had punched him in his face. It's not like Donald Trump's fist is much of a threat and it's always sunny somewhere.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1023 by 1.61803, posted 02-24-2016 11:51 AM 1.61803 has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


(10)
Message 1026 of 1639 (778791)
02-24-2016 12:05 PM


Walls
After listening to Trump Nevada victory speech I do have to warn you folks that if you keep going this way we will have to build a wall along our southern border. And make you pay fo it.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1027 by 1.61803, posted 02-24-2016 12:14 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 1027 of 1639 (778794)
02-24-2016 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1026 by NosyNed
02-24-2016 12:05 PM


Re: Walls
He is a rich self absorbed twit who probably can not believe how stupid the American public in general is. He is probably in private saying , " Can youse believe how I am winning so YOO-GE!? I could squat down on the podium and take a shit on a photo of Obama and it would win me votes."

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1026 by NosyNed, posted 02-24-2016 12:05 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1028 of 1639 (778795)
02-24-2016 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1013 by Pressie
02-24-2016 6:47 AM


Re: No, it is not at all clear that terrorists when caught deserve a fair trial.
NoNukes, remember you're trying to argue with someone who thinks that it's Okie Dokie to own slaves.
Are you talking about me? If so you'd better come up with some evidence because that's a big fat lie you just told.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1013 by Pressie, posted 02-24-2016 6:47 AM Pressie has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1029 of 1639 (778798)
02-24-2016 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1022 by Theodoric
02-24-2016 11:31 AM


Re: No, it is not at all clear that terrorists when caught deserve a fair trial.
Thank you for the information. I generally avoid Snopes because I know it has a liberal slant. However, that was a very thorough discussion of relevant facts. So thanks.
What it succeeds in proving at least is that the pigs blood story Trump told has a lot of history behind it and was not made up by Trump or made up recently at all, even if they were unable to track down reports of an incident sufficiently like the one Trump reported to support his claim.
But what is reported nevertheless gives quite a bit of support to what he said, which flies in the face of all the claims here that he just made it up or there was nothing to the story at all.
It also does suggest that it is or was not unheard of for hostile entities to be executed without trial, and apparently legally. The different situations mentioned include one of Muslims / Moros being executed without trial, though Pershing regretted it -- not on legal grounds apparently but just because he sincerely wanted to avoid killings if possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1022 by Theodoric, posted 02-24-2016 11:31 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1030 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-24-2016 1:17 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 1031 by Theodoric, posted 02-24-2016 2:24 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 1032 by Modulous, posted 02-24-2016 9:51 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 1030 of 1639 (778803)
02-24-2016 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1029 by Faith
02-24-2016 12:40 PM


Re: No, it is not at all clear that terrorists when caught deserve a fair trial.
I generally avoid Snopes because I know it has a liberal slant.
Like reality.
But what is reported nevertheless gives quite a bit of support to what he said ...
Apart from making it clear that it was, y'know, false.
The different situations mentioned include one of Muslims / Moros being executed without trial.
Sorry, can't find that bit, can you quote it? Thanks.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1029 by Faith, posted 02-24-2016 12:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1031 of 1639 (778812)
02-24-2016 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1029 by Faith
02-24-2016 12:40 PM


Re: No, it is not at all clear that terrorists when caught deserve a fair trial.
I generally avoid Snopes because I know it has a liberal slant.
Snopes has a liberal slant only in the sense that facts have a liberal slant. Please show examples of this supposed liberal slant. If you can not, then please admit you are wrong and retract.
What it succeeds in proving at least is that the pigs blood story Trump told has a lot of history behind it and was not made up by Trump or made up recently at all, even if they were unable to track down reports of an incident sufficiently like the one Trump reported to support his claim.
No one has ever claimed Trump made it up. It is still false. No matter how many times you repeat a lie it is still a lie. The inability to check something out before you repeat it is a not a good characteristic for a man running for President. I know you live your life that way, but you wouldn't get my vote either. Spouting shit just because you like how it sounds is not a good idea for anyone nonetheless a presidential candidate.
But what is reported nevertheless gives quite a bit of support to what he said
Can you read English? It gives no support to what he said. It clearly states the story is UNTRUE.
It also does suggest that it is or was not unheard of for hostile entities to be executed without trial, and apparently legally. The different situations mentioned include one of Muslims / Moros being executed without trial, though Pershing regretted it -- not on legal grounds apparently but just because he sincerely wanted to avoid killings if possible.
Please quote your source for this utterly bizarre statement.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1029 by Faith, posted 02-24-2016 12:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(5)
Message 1032 of 1639 (778839)
02-24-2016 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1029 by Faith
02-24-2016 12:40 PM


Re: No, it is not at all clear that terrorists when caught deserve a fair trial.
What it succeeds in proving at least is that the pigs blood story Trump told has a lot of history behind it and was not made up by Trump or made up recently at all, even if they were unable to track down reports of an incident sufficiently like the one Trump reported to support his claim.
And yet Trump confidently proclaimed in front of millions of people that this action by Pershing was responsible for ending terrorism in the region for 25 years and therefore we should torture people.
Where did that come from? Surely that's the kind of thing that people talk and write about? Where is it?
Do you know the actual story?
There was a revolution. The people wanted independence from Spain, at first, and then the United States. Decades of intermittent strife followed as the USA was determined to hold to its colony despite the cost in lives. Part of this was selfish, but as Japan started looking like trouble, part of it was trying to protect the island from invasion.
In 1911 Pershing wanted to take the people's firearms so as to make his Governorship easier. That's right. He took what you have previously called a tyrant's action in attempting to disarm a populace by force.
They shot at the soldiers who came on the orders of the tyrant to take away their guns from them in their homes.
His men shot back. His men captured some belligerents. Trump calls them terrorists who did lots of damage. Pershing probably called them rebels whom he said he regarded as his adopted children. They call themselves freedom fighters who were defending their rights. Either way, they were hanged.
He regretted people had to die.
That's what history records. No general fear of pig's blood executions seems to have been talked about to the extent it would explain any change in violence.
Here's what we do know about the situation
-Pershing left the Governorship shortly afterwards, 1913, the last military Governor/Dictator. He believed this was necessary. He was replaced by a Civillian Governor.
-The Jones Law was passed, giving reasonable prospect of an independent Philippines to all parties.
- WWI broke out and the people of the Philippines agreed to stop the fight for independence and fight with the USA.
I think these factors explain the subsequent 25 years of Philippine history better than an anecdote - even if its 100% true.
It also does suggest that it is or was not unheard of for hostile entities to be executed without trial, and apparently legally.
I'm surprised this is something this thread is even talking about. It was 1911. He was a military governor a long way from home before global communication networks. He could shoot whoever he wanted, including his subordinates, and at worst he'd lose his job and pension. But as long as he could give a reason, just about any reason, he was probably safe from even that.
This is a link to a picture of three executed Moros who said to the dictator 'out of my cold dead hands' - the idea that anybody on this forum entertained the notion that they got anything approaching a trial is laughable. It's possible, of course - but why bother? It was a military dictatorship. What the Governor says is more or less law.
The terrible part shouldn't be execution of criminals without a trial - that happened all the time - America still looked like the wild west though it was a little less wild. A frontier military general who has captured people that the right people say defied a military command while under martial law? That's all that's needed to warrant execution.
No, it's Trump's argument that we should torture people. Way worse than simulated drowning. Way way worse, I believe he would say. That's the headline. He thinks torture and stamping on your enemies religious sensibilities will end terrorism. It's dangerous lunacy. And the audience went wild!
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1029 by Faith, posted 02-24-2016 12:40 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1033 by jar, posted 02-24-2016 10:07 PM Modulous has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1033 of 1639 (778840)
02-24-2016 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1032 by Modulous
02-24-2016 9:51 PM


Re: No, it is not at all clear that terrorists when caught deserve a fair trial.
No, it's Trump's argument that we should torture people. Way worse than simulated drowning. Way way worse, I believe he would say. That's the headline. He thinks torture and stamping on your enemies religious sensibilities will end terrorism. It's dangerous lunacy. And the audience went wild!
You gotta admit that it is an effective method of governing people. Andrew Jackson certainly found it worked both while as a General and later while a President. Papa Doc found it worked. Many other national leaders found it worked.
Remember in the US we have a history of using such tactics whether it is Jackson defying the President and Congress and invading Florida and executing local politicians or later as President driving the Indians out of their homes and plantations in the South to MacArthur, Eisenhower and Patton driving the Bonus Army off the Mall and burning their tents and belongings. In that last event President Hoover ordered MacArthur to stop but he ignored the Commander in Chief and continued the wanton destruction even across the Anacostia River.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1032 by Modulous, posted 02-24-2016 9:51 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1034 by Phat, posted 02-25-2016 1:17 AM jar has replied
 Message 1040 by Modulous, posted 02-25-2016 9:08 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1034 of 1639 (778841)
02-25-2016 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1033 by jar
02-24-2016 10:07 PM


Re: No, it is not at all clear that terrorists when caught deserve a fair trial.
This is the first I have ever read about the "Bonus Army" of WWI vets who wanted to cash in promissory notes(about $7,000 in today's money) and were put in check by an overzealous military..though a few years later they all got their money with few exceptions...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by jar, posted 02-24-2016 10:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1038 by jar, posted 02-25-2016 8:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 1035 of 1639 (778842)
02-25-2016 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1023 by 1.61803
02-24-2016 11:51 AM


Re: wtf?
Oh, I don't know. Maybe The Trump is the least crazy of them all.
Cruz is a science-denier. He thinks that the world is 6 000 years old and that YEC should be taught in schools as science. Crazy as can be. Rubio is also a Tea-Bagger.
So, as crazy as it seems, maybe The Don is the least crazy out of the three of them.
In the end, anyone from the Dems will beat them sometime in November. Even Hillary can do it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1023 by 1.61803, posted 02-24-2016 11:51 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1044 by 1.61803, posted 02-25-2016 9:39 AM Pressie has not replied
 Message 1050 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-26-2016 2:26 AM Pressie has replied

  
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