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Author Topic:   Why Do Gay Men Sound Gay?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 16 of 165 (779227)
03-01-2016 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Faith
03-01-2016 8:26 PM


Seems to me you have a tin ear if you don't recognize that as a gay voice. And it was so identified, too. And as I said it doesn't sound feminine to me, it is its own thing. And since it IS recognizable as gay it suggests there really aren't all that many varieties of it as someone here suggested.
It's a camp voice. There is correlation with the gay community.
I can see how you could pick it up by hanging around the gay community but how many acquire it that way? I'd guess not many. And you still have to explain how it developed in the first place.
I don't think anybody knows, but homosexuals were ostracized and groups that feel attacked from the outside tend towards adopting similar slang, dialects, and even inflection and intonation. Ostracized long enough and and the effect can be quite pronounced.
Maybe there was a reason there was a leaning in the community towards that. Perhaps it comes from the theatre community. With their gregariuousness and campness, the thetre may have provided role models for the gay community whose performance also had a 'camp' tone. This might have meant consumers of this culture may have started to adopt some of the campy theatrical voices.
It might be that some homosexuals found that by being a fearless and flaming homosexual they find that straight people tolerate their presence. Like they weren't viewed as a strange threat and more thought of as a jester.
Trying not to sound macho? OK, that's a theory.
Indeed, it may be in this area. Some men are attracted to macho men, some men are turned off by this. It might have been a conscious method of subtly (at first) advertising they aren't a 'macho gay' while trying to find dating partners in a world filled with people they are attracted to who would beat them for asking them out.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 17 of 165 (779228)
03-01-2016 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Theodoric
03-01-2016 8:21 PM


Oh, be nice.
Some gay men do in fact sound gay. Randall of "Honey Badger" fame comes to mind. And, as Faith points out, the Donald Gay Trump thing wouldn't work if this were not the case.
Gay male speech - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Theodoric, posted 03-01-2016 8:21 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Theodoric, posted 03-01-2016 9:09 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 03-01-2016 10:13 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 18 of 165 (779229)
03-01-2016 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Dr Adequate
03-01-2016 9:00 PM


Yes and some black men like watermelon. Some hispanics are lazy. Some hillbillys have sex with their sisters. Some asians are very good at math. Some gay men have a lisp.
All stereotypes.
I can also say that some white men like watermelon. Some white people are lazy. Some wealthy men have sex with their sisters and some straight men have a lisp.
Faith is perpetuating a stereotypical view of a group of people. This is just another example of the vile bigotry shown by Faith time and time again.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2016 9:00 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2016 10:53 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-02-2016 12:55 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 19 of 165 (779231)
03-01-2016 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
03-01-2016 8:52 PM


Not hatred, disgust. Very different feelings. Hatred takes effort. You are not worth effort.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 03-01-2016 8:52 PM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18335
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 20 of 165 (779235)
03-01-2016 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Dr Adequate
03-01-2016 9:00 PM


Camp Meeting
Some men may subconsciously adopt certain female speech patterns.
The Gay Voice At least these linguistics professors seem to think so.
Add By Edit: I also found an interesting article in The New Yorker that provided some possible food for thought.
Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 165 (779236)
03-01-2016 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
03-01-2016 11:55 AM


Some gay men really do "sound gay" and to me it doesn't sound feminine as some claim, or like a "lisp" as some put it, it is its own thing. I was reminded of this by the post on the Humor thread of Trump speaking with a gay voice. Distinctively unmistakably gay.
Here's an article about someone who made a documentary about it , how gay men try not to sound gay. But I don't think it really explains what it is in the first place and how it comes about.
Curious what opinions you all have about it.
Well, not all gay men talk like that. There are more effeminate one's than others, usually those are self-described within the gay community as Twinks. Others are very machismo and you would never know they are gay.
As to how it developed, I don't know, but the continuation of it is probably the same as it is with accents. You speak how you are spoken to since people gravitate towards things they know.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 165 (779237)
03-01-2016 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Faith
03-01-2016 8:26 PM


Seems to me you have a tin ear if you don't recognize that as a gay voice.
I have not heard the 'gay voice' in question, but surely there is at least a 'stage' gay voice that we can expect will be taken on when someone is supposed to be identified as gay for one reason or another in some skit.
Ok course some gay do take on that voice, and surely those that do are the origin of the stereotype. Given that the voice is an affectation, surely the most likely way it would be acquired would be hanging around other people who speak similarly. Why is that hard to believe?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 23 of 165 (779239)
03-01-2016 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Theodoric
03-01-2016 9:09 PM


Yes and some black men like watermelon.
And if hardly any white men did, then it would be reasonable to wonder why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Theodoric, posted 03-01-2016 9:09 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 165 (779242)
03-02-2016 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by 1.61803
03-01-2016 3:11 PM


So one can "imprint" on those who they spend a great deal of time around and also those who are role models according to some of the films speech experts. This is one of the most common ways we as humans mimic the voices around us. Sometimes subconsciously and sometimes on purpose.
I imagine it is something similar to how the prototypical "Valley Girl" (like, OMG!) mode of speech began, and more importantly, how it perpetuated. There are noticeable inflections and intonations when hearing Valley Girl speech. And people living abroad often pick up the accents for certain words. Obviously not uncommon.
My best educated guess as to how Camp first developed was likely because gay adolescent boys first had an affinity for girls as platonic friends long before they fully sexually matured. Girls tend to be much more animated in their speech by using lots of facial expressions, hand movements, and inflections for certain words. It's very expressive. So since they spent so much time talking to females, it seems that they might have picked up tendencies commonly associated with females.
The inverse tendencies could likely be said of butch-type lesbians. But this is definitely not the case with all lesbians or all gay men.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 25 of 165 (779244)
03-02-2016 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Theodoric
03-01-2016 9:09 PM


Faith is perpetuating a stereotypical view of a group of people. This is just another example of the vile bigotry shown by Faith time and time again.
For what it's worth, she sounded genuinely interested. You have to remember that she probably doesn't have much association with gay people because of their [to use Faith's words] "lifestyle." I don't think calling her a vile bigot when she's not acting like a vile bigot (at the moment) is going to help the walls come down... it'll probably actually build them up quicker and reinforce her beliefs. Just give her a little bit... After all, I'm sure there will be plenty of things to legitimately scorn her about at a later time! But for now, she seems genuinely interested. I think it might be a good opportunity to extend an olive branch, not a hand grenade.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Theodoric, posted 03-01-2016 9:09 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 26 of 165 (779257)
03-02-2016 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
03-01-2016 10:53 PM


And if hardly any white men did, then it would be reasonable to wonder why.
Your response is not logical. It would presume that appreciable more gay men have this "voice" than straight men. I do not think facts would bear you out. Many straight men act and sound effeminate.
Your bigotry is showing. Gay does not mean effeminate. I know quite a few gay people. I also know some effeminate sounding men. There are hardly more effeminate sound gay men then straight men in my experience. Some of the most masculine seeming men I know are gay and some of the most effeminate sounding men I know are straight.
If you want to help perpetuate stereotypes that is your choice.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2016 10:53 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Modulous, posted 03-02-2016 2:16 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 27 of 165 (779258)
03-02-2016 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Hyroglyphx
03-02-2016 12:55 AM


Hyroglyphx writes:
For what it's worth, she sounded genuinely interested. You have to remember that she probably doesn't have much association with gay people because of their [to use Faith's words] "lifestyle."
No. Worldview. Lots of fundamentalist religious people love the word 'worldview'. To lots of them a lifestyle is a worldview.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2724 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(3)
Message 28 of 165 (779261)
03-02-2016 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Theodoric
03-01-2016 8:21 PM


Hi, Theodoric.
Theodoric writes:
What is amazing is that your bigotry seems to know no bounds. What possessed you to think this was a topic worth discussing?
You have a vile stereotype for everyone that is different than you. Crawl back under your rock.
What possessed you to think that this response was proportionate to the offense?
I thought we wanted to encourage asking questions as part of the process of tearing down walls and building bridges, and all that.
We all harbor suspicions that Faith's question may be more than just innocent, idle curiosity; but letting yourself get all rankled at the very outset of a thread is only going to make it worse.
Other posters seem to have been able to start a fruitful discussion on the topic, despite the potential undertone of bigotry in the opening post. Why not try that approach for once?

-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*
*Yeah, it's real
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 29 of 165 (779263)
03-02-2016 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Faith
03-01-2016 8:26 PM


Faith writes:
Did anybody go listen to that gay voiceover of Trump on the Humor thread?
If they did a hillbilly voiceover of an American politician, would anybody notice the difference?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Faith, posted 03-01-2016 8:26 PM Faith has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 503 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


(1)
Message 30 of 165 (779264)
03-02-2016 10:59 AM


Speaking as a gay guy partnered with another guy, the responses so far to the OP makes me not want to associate with the liberal PC crowd.
Faith asked a legit question.
May be EvC should create a new section called "Safe Space"?

If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

Replies to this message:
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