Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,868 Year: 4,125/9,624 Month: 996/974 Week: 323/286 Day: 44/40 Hour: 3/7


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   White Privilege
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 255 of 276 (779254)
03-02-2016 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by Jon
03-01-2016 9:45 PM


Re: the history and mathematics of prejudice
Stop being a dick. This shit happens regularly around here. Most people point it out and move on.
That's what I did.
But leave it to the all-arrogant Modulous to try to blame his debate partner for a mistake he himself made...
I was trying to understand what happened. So I asked.
Leave it to Jon to think this is about blame.
Anyway, I'm ready to move past this. Are you?This thread is about 'white privilege'.
Correct.
Pointing out that what you call a 'privilege' applies to almost everyone is entirely on topic
If your point is to acknowledge something we aren't hiding then...I don't know what then. I guess....OK.
but then you are back to where many were when this thread began: defining 'privilege' in such a way that it has no useful meaning.
Academia have been using it for a century. It sounds like you are just misunderstanding the concept.
So you're just going to ignore everything else I said about dialects and their ability to 'disadvantage' people?
No.
How much do you know about AAVE and the dialects of American English?
Not a great deal.
What defines Standard American English and how many people speak it from birth?
This doesn't seem related to anything I was saying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Jon, posted 03-01-2016 9:45 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Jon, posted 03-02-2016 7:14 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 256 of 276 (779255)
03-02-2016 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by Hyroglyphx
03-02-2016 1:08 AM


Re: the history and mathematics of prejudice
But is it significant enough to warrant, say, placing the contraction "ya'll" on nationwide SAT's to accommodate Texans and Southerners in light of them doing more poorly statistically?
I don't know. I've not seen anybody who claims it is.
But the main thrust of the argument is advantage vs disadvantage, and how we should level playing field, is it not?
Yes.
Not necessarily.
I'm not arguing it is necessary.
Oh, wow... I didn't know that. That contraction is very common in New York, Chicago, and Boston.
And N'Awlins, where half my family lives.
It's from 'you all'
I'll see you all later = I'll see y'all later
Okay, getting back to the topic, where were you going with the Ebonics argument?
Message 235
What were suggesting be done?
I don't think I've made any suggestions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-02-2016 1:08 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 260 of 276 (779296)
03-02-2016 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Jon
03-02-2016 7:14 PM


Re: the history and mathematics of prejudice
The term as you wish to use it is useless.
And there is a lot of useless crap in academia.
The term as I wish to use it has utility.
The term as you think I wish to use it may well be useless.
White Privilege refers a collection of social, economic, political etc advantages that come from being White in the USA (and other countries too, but one at a time I think). I've given actual examples of it.
Then on what are you basing your claims regarding AAVE?
I haven't made any claims. I raised it as an example of how differences in cultures might influence test results. As I know less about SATs than I do about AAVE I haven't actually made any claims that these two are specifically linked. I remember hearing someone mention a theory along those lines some years ago, and I raised it as an example as it sounded like it might illuminate the concept.
I myself haven't seen anything to indicate AAVE would inhibit academic performance
Well I hadn't done so before. The first google hit for me for 'aave academic perfomance' is The Effects of Culturally Congruent Educational Technologies on Student Achievement - by Finkelstein et al
quote:
Dialectal differences are one explanation for the systematical-
ly reduced test scores of children of color compared to their Euro-
American peers. In this work, we explore the relationship between aca-
demic performance and dialect differences exhibited in a learning envi-
ronment by assessing 3 rd grade students’ science performance after in-
teracting with a distant peer technology that employed one of three
dialect use patterns. We found that our participants, all native speakers
of African American Vernacular English (AAVE), demonstrated the
strongest science performance when the technology used AAVE fea-
tures consistently throughout the interaction. These results call for a re-
examination of the cultural assumptions underlying the design of educa-
tional technologies, with a specific emphasis on the way in which we
present information to culturally-underrepresented groups.
Familiarity with school English in African American children and its relation to early reading achievement. by Anne Harper Charity Hudley et al
Now you've seen something, even if you decide to dismiss as incorrect.
It's entirely related, because if no one speaks the Standard from birth, then pointing out the prevalence of a non-standard variety amongst one group can't prove a 'disadvantage' for that group or some 'privilege' for others.
In language there is no Standard. There are just prevalences. The standards in education are presumably set through government policy with consultation with parents. I would have thought as an educator you'd have a better idea than me how the US system determines Standard English for testing purposes.
I have no idea what knowing a language from birth has to do with anything. If you are born black, the chances of you learning AAVE as a primary language are greater than if you aren't. That's not controversial is it? That by being in a majority, you get to be part of the group that sets the standard. If, in doing so, bias seeps in - it is probably to the benefit of your group. Either conscious bias (overt and covert racism), or selection bias or some other systematic bias.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Jon, posted 03-02-2016 7:14 PM Jon has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024