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Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: White Privilege | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Since you're the only one in the thread who's ignorant of the meaning of "privilege", you seem to be shooting yourself in the foot again.
Someone who takes great delight in the misery of others by being deliberately obtuse and ignorant.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
It's a privilege that many of us are born with, like white skin. Unlike skin colour, it's a privilege that you can lose.
Right, so it's a privilege to have two legs.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat Sci writes:
The point is that people who are privileged are the least likely to notice that they are privileged.
When you're calling things like 'having two legs' a privilege, then you've lost me on what it is you're trying to say.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat Sci writes:
I didn't say you should call it a privilege. You can call it "George" for all I care. I said you should recognize that it is a privilege - or at least equivalent to a privilege. You should recognize that it's something you have that others don't have.
Okay, so I have two legs. Why should I call that a privilege? Cat Sci writes:
I didn't say it was better.
Why is that better than saying that people who do not have two legs are deprived?
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat Sci writes:
It's a figure of speech. It stretches the dictionary-boy meaning of the word to make a point, the point of the whole friggin' thread - i.e. that people who are privileged don't know they're privileged.
Why "privilege" though? Cat Sci writes:
On the contrary, it broadens its meaning.
And when privileged just means 'not-deprived' then it has lost its meaning.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
It's a privilege that can be taken away at a moment's notice, like any other privilege.
People with two legs are not privileged, they're entirely to be expected - two legs is the normal condition for people. Tangle writes:
Coins have two sides. Having an advantage taken away from you - or not being given an advantage in the first place - is what makes you disadvantaged. Can you really not see the similarity between privileged and advantaged?
It's therefore not the case that people with two legs are privileged but it is the case that people without two legs are disadvantaged.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Cat Sci writes:
Thank you. I try to rise above the lowest common denominator.
Well, yes, Ringo is fairly abnormal
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
But more so for those who were born into it.
English culture belongs to everyone who speaks the language.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Jon writes:
No. ringo writes:
According only to you. Jon writes:
But more so for those who were born into it. English culture belongs to everyone who speaks the language. Children who were born into the "English culture", like me, heard the nursery rhymes in the nursery before we could even talk. It's a very different situation for children whose families come from other cultures, whose mothers don't even know our nursery rhymes. Sure, they can look up The Three Little Pigs on the Internet but why would they? They clearly do not have the "privilege" of knowing the English culture from birth, so references to English culture are not a valid reflection of their intelligence.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Of course it isn't valid. Would a test in Arabic be a valid test of your intelligence?
Is testing anything someone might not know from birth "not a valid reflection of their intelligence"?
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
I won't presume, like you do, to know how everybody reacts to my position. (I did get a cheer, which makes your claim mathematically false.) Thank you for clarifying to everyone that your position is ridiculous. I will point out, however, that you have done nothing to show that there is anything wrong with my position. Let's try again: Would a test in Arabic be a valid measure of your intelligence?
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
On the contrary, the specific example we're discussing - nursery rhymes - is something we certainly do learn from birth. For myself, another example is the Bible; I literally knew Bible verses from memory before I could read. They're still with me sixty years later even though I haven't been to church in thirty years. Asking Hindu children about the Sermon on the Mount would not be a valid test of their intelligence.
Almost nothing anyone knows did they know from birth. Jon writes:
Nobody has suggested any such thing. What I've said is that things you learned from birth should not be used as a measure of your intelligence - i.e. as a measure of what you can learn.
No school could get away with restricting itself to only testing those things its pupils should have known from birth. Jon writes:
The tests used a vocabulary that the children didn't know. Big Bad Wolf? Chinny chin chin? It might as well have been Arabic.
The tests weren't in a language the children didn't speak.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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vimesey writes:
Tie me kangaroo down, sport.
... I would have no idea about the significance of six white boomers.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Again - explain why you disagree.
That's just as ridiculous. Jon writes:
I read where he said, "A child of Asian ethnic origin stood no chance, because Asian origin parents don't generally read their kids traditional white British nursery rhymes," in Message 261, which is exactly what I've been saying. Maybe you can explain why it's ridiculous when I say it, yet you try to use it as an argument against me.
Did you read vimesey's explanation of the test?
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