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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 121 of 591 (781316)
04-04-2016 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Faith
04-01-2016 5:37 PM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
Feed people, sure, but what people need most is salvation and taking care of the body while ignoring that primary need is a big mistake.
You're never going to bring people to salvation by not demonstrating the love of God first. Jesus fed the masses with fish and loaves of bread without demanding their acceptance to his sacrificial offering of salvation. He spent 3 years doing all kinds of good works before offering himself up.
That's what these street preaching bible thumpers just don't get. They place the cart before the horse when they think saying a few verses to strangers is suddenly going to make them fall to their knees and beg for mercy from God. Not gonna happen. People become convicted when they see an upright life devoted to selflessness. That's what changes hearts and minds.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Faith, posted 04-01-2016 5:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 2:11 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 126 by jaywill, posted 04-04-2016 10:14 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 122 of 591 (781320)
04-04-2016 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Hyroglyphx
04-04-2016 1:08 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
You have the most amazing ability to read stuff into my posts that simply is not there, and impute whole scenarios to me that didn't cross my mind. I did not say DON'T FEED THEM for pete's sake. I was addressing the common problem of attempts to help people that LEAVE OUT the gospel. You invented the whole scenario of the street preacher with the wrong attitude. You don't have a clue, I wish you'd just stop responding to my posts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Hyroglyphx, posted 04-04-2016 1:08 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Hyroglyphx, posted 04-04-2016 3:38 AM Faith has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 591 (781329)
04-04-2016 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
04-04-2016 2:11 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
You have the most amazing ability to read stuff into my posts that simply is not there, and impute whole scenarios to me that didn't cross my mind. I did not say DON'T FEED THEM for pete's sake. I was addressing the common problem of attempts to help people that LEAVE OUT the gospel. You invented the whole scenario of the street preacher with the wrong attitude.
I'm reading between the lines from what I quoted you saying and what I've extrapolated all these years from reading your posts. People recoil from gifts that have a silver lining and an ulterior motive behind it. This is why street preachers are so fantastically ineffective versus the people who witness in more subtle ways.
Hint: You have the mentality of the street preacher, Blind Pharisee
You don't have a clue, I wish you'd just stop responding to my posts.
What a strange thing for me to do on a public forum...

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 2:11 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 3:47 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 124 of 591 (781332)
04-04-2016 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Hyroglyphx
04-04-2016 3:38 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
OK you are going to continue with the personal insults so I'll start ignoring you. YOu should have been suspended half a dozen times by now for your personal attacks.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Hyroglyphx, posted 04-04-2016 3:38 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Hyroglyphx, posted 04-04-2016 4:10 AM Faith has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 591 (781333)
04-04-2016 4:10 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
04-04-2016 3:47 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
OK you are going to continue with the personal insults so I'll start ignoring you. YOu should have been suspended half a dozen times by now for your personal attacks.
What a martyr! This will be my only response to this off-topic diatribe. I'm challenging you based on what you were quoted as saying. I'm sorry that you cannot handle any amount of criticism, but that's not a failing on my part. Being critical isn't the same as being persecuted, ma'am.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 3:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 10:17 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


(1)
Message 126 of 591 (781353)
04-04-2016 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Hyroglyphx
04-04-2016 1:08 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
quote:
You're never going to bring people to salvation by not demonstrating the love of God first.
I have not read ALL of the discussion. I am inserting my comment, therefore, in the middle of your talk.
Your comment seems to assume that to tell people of the Redemption and Justification and Jesus being their Lord, Friend, and Savior is not an expression of love towards them.
quote:
Jesus fed the masses with fish and loaves of bread without demanding their acceptance to his sacrificial offering of salvation.
But after His resurrection there were only 120 followers in the upper room ready to follow Him in His next move. Where were the thousands who were fed and healed ?
Sure, plenty got what they needed that day and disappeared back into society. Jesus had only 120 who cared enough to await the next stage in God's move on the earth.
Your concept is not without merit in practicality. But it may be overly "man centered" as if the only need is that of man. What about the need of God?
In Acts 13:1 it says a great missionary work began with Barnabas and Paul. Please notice that it started with the leading teachers and prophets in the church in Antioch ministering to the need of the Lord.
"Now there were in Antioch, in the local church, prophets and teachers: Barnabas and Simeon, who was called Niger, and Lucius the Cyrenian, and Manean, and Saul.
And as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, Set apart for Me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." (Acts 13:1,2)
These consecrated men ministered to the Lord Jesus being concerned for what God's need was. Surely people have needs. But God has His need too. And these men were calibrated right, setting aside time to ascertain what God's need was.
The 10,000 some fed and healed by Jesus may not have included that many people so concerned. Human nature is very self centered. And we often want God not to go away too far, because we may need Him again. But in the meantime we are nearly completely centered on ourselves.
quote:
He spent 3 years doing all kinds of good works before offering himself up.
That's what these street preaching bible thumpers just don't get. They place the cart before the horse when they think saying a few verses to strangers is suddenly going to make them fall to their knees and beg for mercy from God. Not gonna happen. People become convicted when they see an upright life devoted to selflessness. That's what changes hearts and minds.
There is no need to BEG for mercy. The sinner may simply THANK God for His mercy in the redemption of Jesus Christ. God is not interested in men BEGGING and groveling for mercy. God is interested that men BELIEVE the good news.
I don't totally disagree with your complaint. Both preaching is needed and forming communities of faith as churches. We learn to coordinate together. Some evangelize. Some shepherd those who come to Christ. Some help care for the practical needs of the believers.
And some, as you say, minister practical help in their outreach to manifest the love of Christ. There is room for both outreach in preaching and the service of practical helps. There is no need to pit one against the other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Hyroglyphx, posted 04-04-2016 1:08 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Bliyaal, posted 04-04-2016 11:04 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 130 by ringo, posted 04-04-2016 11:41 AM jaywill has not replied
 Message 139 by Hyroglyphx, posted 04-05-2016 1:44 AM jaywill has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 127 of 591 (781354)
04-04-2016 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Hyroglyphx
04-04-2016 4:10 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
What a martyr! This will be my only response to this off-topic diatribe. I'm challenging you based on what you were quoted as saying. I'm sorry that you cannot handle any amount of criticism, but that's not a failing on my part. Being critical isn't the same as being persecuted, ma'am.
It is against the rules to criticize the person, you are to criticize the message not the person, and you misread the message anyway. I'm glad to hear you are not going to respond any more. Hooray.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Hyroglyphx, posted 04-04-2016 4:10 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 2368 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


(1)
Message 128 of 591 (781357)
04-04-2016 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by jaywill
04-04-2016 10:14 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
But after His resurrection there were only 120 followers in the upper room ready to follow Him in His next move. Where were the thousands who were fed and healed ?
Christians often say that being a christian is about being "Christ-like". In your book, Jesus fed and healed thousands no matter their religion. Are you implying that it was an error and not something he should have done because humans are selfish?
Surely people have needs. But God has His need too.
Funny how the god you market is like humans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jaywill, posted 04-04-2016 10:14 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by jar, posted 04-04-2016 11:08 AM Bliyaal has not replied
 Message 137 by jaywill, posted 04-04-2016 6:09 PM Bliyaal has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 129 of 591 (781358)
04-04-2016 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Bliyaal
04-04-2016 11:04 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
The whole idea of a god that has needs is ridiculous and I find it amazing that anyone could even imagine such a pathetic little critter.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Bliyaal, posted 04-04-2016 11:04 AM Bliyaal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 12:09 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 130 of 591 (781360)
04-04-2016 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by jaywill
04-04-2016 10:14 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
jaywill writes:
But after His resurrection there were only 120 followers in the upper room ready to follow Him in His next move. Where were the thousands who were fed and healed ?
That's a heck of a big room already. Isn't it a bit ridiculous to think that everybody who "cared enough" had to be jammed into one room?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jaywill, posted 04-04-2016 10:14 AM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 1:58 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 131 of 591 (781361)
04-04-2016 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by jar
04-04-2016 11:08 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
Jaywill wasn't using the word "needs" for God as we would use it for people, it is false and insulting to use it the way you do. God doesn't need anything in the most pure sense of the term, He could do just fine without the entire Creation (and considering the attitude of so many of the posts here He could certainly do a lot better if He wiped out the lot of us), it is really a generous act of love and mercy that He made us at all, wanting creatures made in His own image to participate in His own happiness.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by jar, posted 04-04-2016 11:08 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 04-04-2016 12:22 PM Faith has replied
 Message 134 by jar, posted 04-04-2016 12:52 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 136 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 2:08 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 132 of 591 (781364)
04-04-2016 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Faith
04-04-2016 12:09 PM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
Faith writes:
Jaywill wasn't using the word "needs" for God as we would use it for people....
Indeed. As used by fundamentalists, God's "needs" are a euphemism for what He demands of us, or else. It's what we need to do to avoid eternal torment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 12:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 12:40 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 133 of 591 (781367)
04-04-2016 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by ringo
04-04-2016 12:22 PM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
Yep, He could sure do a lot better...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 04-04-2016 12:22 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 134 of 591 (781369)
04-04-2016 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Faith
04-04-2016 12:09 PM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
Faith writes:
Jaywill wasn't using the word "needs" for God as we would use it for people, it is false and insulting to use it the way you do.
Biblical Christians and the Christian Cult of Ignorance certainly don't use words with an reasonable meaning it seems.
But the god you and jaywill tend to market is still pitiful and silly.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 12:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 135 of 591 (781401)
04-04-2016 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by ringo
04-04-2016 11:41 AM


Upper Room
RINGO writes:
Isn't it a bit ridiculous to think that everybody who "cared enough" had to be jammed into one room?
That was just the leadership team.
Matthias had just replaced Judas...who kinda fired himself....and they were of one mind and prayed that no new traitors would ever appear again.
Acts 1:12-13 writes:
Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away. 13When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James. 14These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by ringo, posted 04-04-2016 11:41 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by ringo, posted 04-05-2016 11:37 AM Phat has replied

  
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