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Author Topic:   How does a flood ...
starlite
Member (Idle past 1753 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 61 of 206 (781441)
04-04-2016 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by jar
04-04-2016 2:38 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
The layers were not all deposited by a flood. Your insult to the bible is noted.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 15149
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 62 of 206 (781442)
04-04-2016 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:35 PM


How the heck do people learn to think?
So let's see them do that to show Adam would have fossilized!
tell me a bit about your education. What have you learned in school so far? What is your passion---what do you see yourself becoming in ten years?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

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JonF
Member
Posts: 6173
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 63 of 206 (781443)
04-04-2016 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:42 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
Tell us in your own words in a paragraph or so then.

Many of us can do that, Coyote's probably the best.

14C is a radioactive isotope. It continuously decays, but is continuously produced by cosmic rays hitting 14N atoms. All living things contain some 14C and 12C and 13C. The 14C decays but is supplemented by 14C in what that living thing eats or breathes. When the organism dies the 14C continues to decay but no new 14C replaces it. Since 12C does not decay, the 14C/12C ratio goes down with time. If the 14C/12C ratio when the organism died was the same as today that would give us a direct measure of the time of death. We have very strong evidence that the 14C/12C ratio has varied only by about 10% over the last 50,000 years or so, and a method for correcting the raw measurement to account for that variation. But if the Earth is only about 6,000 years old the 14C/12C ratio must have been wildly different back then and changing incredibly fast. If that had happened we should not see the rate of exchange of carbon between the various reservoirs that we do see today, and nobody has been able to produce any explanation for wild swings in 14C/12C other than magic.

Dr. Aardsma, a very conservative Christian, has some good explanations at The Biblical Chronologist.


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JonF
Member
Posts: 6173
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 64 of 206 (781444)
04-04-2016 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by jar
04-04-2016 2:30 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
Yup. That's a new word for me.

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jar
Member
Posts: 33283
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 65 of 206 (781445)
04-04-2016 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:41 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
There is no such thing as "The Bible™" but rather quite a few different Christian Canons ranging from the smallest at 5 books to the largest which has over 80 books.

Topic.

Can we get a post that is on topic?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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JonF
Member
Posts: 6173
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 66 of 206 (781446)
04-04-2016 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:35 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?

So let's see them do that to show Adam would have fossilized!

Fossilization is incredibly rare, and far more common for marine organisms thatn for land organisms. Should Adam have actually existed, mainstream science predicts it is almost impossible for him to be fossilized and definitely impossible to identify any particular fossil as Adam. Unless it's stamped "2600 BC God (tm)".

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Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 1207 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 67 of 206 (781448)
04-04-2016 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:35 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
So let's see them do that to show Adam would have fossilized!

First things first. Show us that Adam actually existed before we lose more time on your case.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33283
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 68 of 206 (781449)
04-04-2016 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Bliyaal
04-04-2016 2:50 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
Please, topic.

There are enough white rabbits running around already.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Phat
Member
Posts: 15149
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 69 of 206 (781451)
04-04-2016 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by jar
04-04-2016 2:54 PM


Elmer Fudd Wemix
I asked Moose to go buy us some rabbit traps, but I think he may have got lost at walmart.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

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 Message 68 by jar, posted 04-04-2016 2:54 PM jar has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6173
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 70 of 206 (781452)
04-04-2016 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:37 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
Radiometric dating assumes that the decay we now see happened in the past with no limits.

Nope, it's a conclusion.

We have lots of evidence that radioactive decay was constant in the past. Radioactive decay involves deeply fundamental properties of the universe and any significant change would leave many widespread traces in the present. Plus the fact that enough AND to make YEC possible would have melted at least the surface of the Earth and killed every living thing, including those on any ark, from radiation inside their bodies. The RATE group acknowledges this, and has no solution. See Heat and radiation destroy claims of accelerated nuclear decay

Most (definitely not all) radiometric dating involves measuring the ratio of parent to daughter and other significant measurements and facts.

Since it's obvious that all you know about radiometric dating is some vague notion of parent/daughter ratios, your questioning is of no significance. If you are interested, as I've already said, I'll be glad to explain in a relevant thread. The link I gave previously is a good starting point.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33283
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 71 of 206 (781453)
04-04-2016 3:01 PM


The Flood layer.
So far we have had two folk post entirely different understandings, one that all the layers were caused by the flood but that person has not ever provided a satisfactory model, method, process, procedure or mechanism that can explain what is seen.

More recently a new poster has said not all layers were flood layers and were put down by the normal processes (which by the way was the conclusion geologists arrived at long before any form of radiometric dating was knows and which refuted the the idea the earth was young and demonstrated that the earth had to be at least at least millions of years old).

Is there some layer that should be identified as the flood layer? If so, which layer is it?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6173
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 72 of 206 (781454)
04-04-2016 3:04 PM


You can find brief introductions to what AND would leave behind at The Constancy of Constants and The Constancy of Constants, Part 2, by a well-known physicist.

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12715
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


(1)
Message 73 of 206 (781471)
04-04-2016 3:43 PM


Moderator Request
A couple participants have already alluded to keeping discussion on topic and to the role of evidence in a scientific discussion, and I'd like to emphasize these points. From the Forum Guidelines:

  1. Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.

Message 1 outlines the thread's topic, requesting descriptions of how the flood produced the evidence seen in the geologic record.

  1. Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.

Describe the evidence that convinced you of your position.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 945 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 74 of 206 (781477)
04-04-2016 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:37 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
The ratios of parent and daughter isotopes are used to determine how much time it took to produce the daughter by that decay.

It has been pointed out to you that this is not the case for radiocarbon dating.

Radiocarbon dating makes absolutely no use of a daughter product.

Are you not reading the posts we make, or are you so firm in your delusions that nothing we say, and no evidence we present, will make any difference to you?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


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starlite
Member (Idle past 1753 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 75 of 206 (781484)
04-04-2016 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
04-04-2016 2:43 PM


Re: How the heck do people learn to think?
No. It isn't about me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 2:43 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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