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Author Topic:   How does a flood ...
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 22 of 206 (781322)
04-04-2016 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by starlite
04-03-2016 11:32 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
Where's the beef? You think what exactly? You think the daughter material could not have been there because it is now produced by decay? Or..? Stay away from whatever taught you stuff.

In radiocarbon dating, one does not measure the daughter isotope (14N) --- as you could have found out with half a minute's research into the method. Your false assumption that the method involves 14N makes arrant nonsense of your reply to Coyote's post. I suggest that in future you should research more and assume less.


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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 25 of 206 (781325)
04-04-2016 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:19 AM


Re: different causes for different layers?
Actually the ratios are measured and the daughter parent ratio is used. You kidding? In the future I suggest you don't come off sounding like a know it all when you aren't.

You are wrong, as you could find out by spending half a minute looking at literally any resource that tells you how radiocarbon dating works.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 83 of 206 (781526)
04-04-2016 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:37 PM


Has YEC Changed That Much?
I consider so called flood geology to be absurd and pathetically weak. For someone to toss it out in this day and age as something that represents creation believers is silly. Maybe 20 years ago...

Well, there are plenty of leading YECs, and of course the rank and file, who still cling to flood geology. Could you name some prominent YECs who agree with your views, or direct us to their websites? Thank you.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 85 of 206 (781532)
04-04-2016 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by starlite
04-04-2016 10:33 PM


Re: Has YEC Changed That Much?
No. I don't pay much attention to all that.

Well if you don't pay any attention to what your fellow-YECs believe then perhaps you shouldn't make posts about what they believe.

Would you not agree that believers ought to look for some better explanation than a single flood for all the geologic record?

I would agree; and I would add that this better explanation is to be found in geology textbooks, along with much useful and pertinent information such as that the Earth is not in fact young.

I cannot say whether your own take on YEC is more or less silly than the more usual brands of Young Earth Creationism, since your presentation of it has been extremely sketchy. Perhaps you could start a thread about it.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 94 of 206 (781582)
04-05-2016 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by JonF
04-05-2016 12:16 PM


Re: different causes for different layers?
I'm surprised that fission track is so popular.

From 2005, via Dr. Ludwig of the Berkeley Geochronological Laboratory, a survey of the literature in that year or so:

Is there a paper? Thanks.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 96 of 206 (781590)
04-05-2016 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
04-05-2016 6:49 PM


Re: Events seen round the world --- change leaves evidence
There was ONE Biblical worldwide Flood and there is plenty of evidence for it in the strata themselves that span whole continents that are laden with dead things in such a way as to show they were buried catastrophically.

No.

Walther's Law gives us the method for the laying down of the strata in disparate sediments: sand that became sandstone, carbonates that became limestone, clay that became shale, mud to mudstone and so on, which are laid down one after another and one on top of the other as sea level rises, which is of course what would have happened in the flood.

How many times would this have happened in the flood?


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 103 of 206 (781597)
04-05-2016 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Faith
04-05-2016 8:27 PM


Re: Events seen round the world --- change leaves evidence
Yes. Yeah they're a jumbled tumbled mess Dr A. The dinosaurs are particularly a jumbled mess, as you can see for instance at that monument where a wall of fossils is exposed through a glass wall. They obviously didn't die normal deaths. And Steve Austin's study of the nautiloids in the redwall limestone in the Grand Canyon area certainly proves they were washed there to be buried and didn't die normal deaths.

The nautiloids drowned in the flood?

How are you identifying how these things died?

As for how they were buried, while some organisms were indeed buried in dune slumps or mudslides, many things evidently were not, as one can tell by observing the effects of scavengers or erosion on their remains.

The Flood rose steadily, continuing to deposit its sediments with their corpses. How many times? Once, a steady rising over about five months. One rising up, one retreat down.

Then why are there multiple transgressive and regressive sequences in the geological record?


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 114 of 206 (781614)
04-05-2016 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Faith
04-05-2016 8:52 PM


Re: Events seen round the world --- change leaves evidence
Austin showed that the nautiloids are represented by individuals of all ages all mixed together, which wouldn't happen with normal deaths.

Of course it would. Are you nuts? An organism can die of non-magic-flood causes at any age.

You need to provide the evidence of your scavenger assertion and your multiple transgressions-regressions assertion.

It's clear that most fossils are not of suddenly buried organisms because if they were they would be intact.

Re transgressions and regressions, start here.

ABE: My guess is that the rising and falling of the tides would account for the latter

Tides don't rise and fall that high.

You should guess less often.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 154 of 206 (781667)
04-06-2016 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Faith
04-06-2016 9:02 AM


Re: Strata in South Africa
I think Pressie took "worldwide strata" to mean strata that were worldwide, not that there are strata all over the world. Just as one would take "global corporations" to imply corporations having branches in many continents, rather than a number of different corporations which didn't, but which collectively existed in many continents.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 155 of 206 (781668)
04-06-2016 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Faith
04-05-2016 10:52 PM


Re: Events seen round the world --- change leaves evidence
Gpsh it's amazing how many billions of creatures of all ages did so all at once ...

But there's no evidence for that.

Suddenly buried organisms would be intact you say? What an odd idea. These were apparently carried along in the rising ocean water before being deposited. Some tossing about going on there no doubt, as well as probably getting munched on by various sea creatures that continued to be alive at the moment.

Well, of those that are not intact, what would lead us to think that they were suddenly buried at all?

Abe: Tides NORMALLY don't rise that high, but we're talking about a one-time worldwide catastrophic rising of all the water in the oceans.

Sure, but the extra rises in sea-level that are tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon. Do you propose that this changed during the Flood?


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 156 of 206 (781670)
04-06-2016 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Faith
04-05-2016 10:38 PM


Re: Events seen round the world --- change leaves evidence
Why should there be time periods at all, let alone time periods marked by a particular kind of sediment with a particular kind of fossil contents? That alone makes no sense. You are NOT going to get anything like that out of the era WE live in. Look at the current surface of the earth. It is NOT going to flatten down to a slab of some particular kind of sediment that spans the world EVER.

But the sediments in the geological record are not all of a single kind for a single time either.

If the flood model accounts for the "fact" that they are, then the flood model is wrong.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 157 of 206 (781672)
04-06-2016 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
04-06-2016 6:43 AM


Re: Flood model
Insisting on the time explanation just makes you an Old Earther, it says nothing to explain how the fossils would have been sorted in the Flood. Since sediments would have been sorted according to Walther's Law ...

That's not actually being "sorted" though, is it? The sediments weren't arranged, they just lay where they fell.

... and the dead things would have been carried within those sediments, which we know by the fact that there are particular fossils contained in particular rocks, it appears they were also sorted, but what the principle of their sorting might be isn't knowable at this point.

But that is a huge omission of anything pretending to be a theory, Faith. Huge, monstrous, glaring. It would be captious to ask you to account for every rock, but if you can't begin to account for the fossil record, that's a whole class of things that you can't account for and real geology can account for.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 164 of 206 (781695)
04-06-2016 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
04-06-2016 4:10 PM


Re: Events seen round the world --- change leaves evidence
Yes there are some time periods that are marked by more than one layer, and some of the layers are mixtures but not many, and the overall fact remains that the geologic column is characterized by discreet separate sediments, each time period marked by its own sediment or sediments, and that is what makes no sense.

The reason it makes no sense is that you made it up. Things that you make up usually make no sense.


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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 177 of 206 (781717)
04-06-2016 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
04-06-2016 4:17 PM


Re: Events seen round the world --- change leaves evidence
Do you need me to post some of the hundreds of charts of the geologic column to prove I didn't make it up?

If you can find even one chart of the geologic column that proves that each geological period exhibits only one sort of sediment worldwide, I shall eat my hat, my pants and a small Early Perpendicular cathedral.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 201 of 206 (781854)
04-08-2016 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by jar
04-08-2016 9:14 AM


Land & Sea
But that's an attempt at explaining how this happened once But if you look at, say, the Grand Canyon, you get sea fossils, land fossils, sea fossils, land fossils ...

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