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Author Topic:   The Story in the Rocks - Southwestern U.S.
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 43 of 121 (781769)
04-07-2016 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by edge
04-07-2016 2:05 PM


Re: Another testament to erosion
Thanks, that make perfect sense.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by edge, posted 04-07-2016 2:05 PM edge has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 48 of 121 (781774)
04-07-2016 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
04-07-2016 2:13 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
Faith writes:

The point is that you would not ever have gotten a flat horizontal surface from erosion of the buckled section if it occurred before the upper were laid on it, but it is always said that it was eroded flat, and this is to accommodate the fact that the upper section IS flat and horizontal in the majority of cases.

This whole "buckled section after the overlying layers were deposited thing" is something you made up.

You are the only one who claims the contact surface of the Grand Canyon unconformity is flat. It may look that way if you are viewing it from miles away, but up close it is quite irregular.

Edge has shown you examples of this irregular surface and it has been pointed out to you numerous times in the past. The flatness is an illusion cased by viewing distance.

And just how many are you calling a "majority of cases?" How many unconformities have you actually visited and analyzed?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 2:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 2:38 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 50 of 121 (781777)
04-07-2016 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
04-07-2016 2:33 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
Faith writes:

I am totally convinced of my argument, I know it's right, it's far from some kind of "religious" position.

Right, despite being shown countless pieces of evidence that prove you wrong, and never having conducted a single second of scientific research, and having an argument that violates the laws of physics, that is based on a biblical myth, you still know you are right.

You have said in past discussions that no matter how much evidence there is against you the bible is still correct. Sounds exactly like religion and/or cognitive dissonance to me.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 2:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 2:57 PM Tanypteryx has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 52 of 121 (781779)
04-07-2016 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
04-07-2016 2:38 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
Faith writes:

I posted pictures demonstrating the flatness, and I added a link to that post in Message 44 that you missed because you were answering it already. The pictures show the contact to be flat both close up and at a distance.

Yep, you posted a bunch of photos, but subsequent posts blew your interpretation out of the water.

After all this time your argument has not gained a single convert, Geology must be a powerful argument.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 2:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 3:10 PM Tanypteryx has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 65 of 121 (781806)
04-07-2016 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Faith
04-07-2016 8:08 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
Faith writes:

I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THIS DEBATE.

So, once again you crap all over a perfectly good discussion.

You know what they say......"Don't let the......."


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 8:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 8:30 PM Tanypteryx has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 71 of 121 (781825)
04-07-2016 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
04-07-2016 10:18 PM


Re: compound/complex forces
I thought you left.....

Faith writes:

you ape-brained self-important geologist who is always getting insulted if a creationist dares to disagree so you're willing to resort to straw man duplicity and other tricks to win at all costs. I resent your straw man model. I'm every bit as smart as you are, possibly even smarter, yes even about things geological, and I've already thought about this and don't need your hostile lame-brained input.

There is only one person being rude and insulting here and it is not edge or Jar. You are behaving like a total jerk, which typical when you realize that your argument won't hold water.

Our model describes Geology on this planet perfectly with nothing left out. Your model does not work, period.

Now, once again. this is a SCIENCE thread not a biblical flood thread.

Please go away like you said you would. I started this thread to discuss geological formation that I have seen with GEOLOGISTS.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 10:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 10:37 PM Tanypteryx has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 87 of 121 (781960)
04-12-2016 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by edge
04-09-2016 2:39 PM


Many places where I see these types of deposits they seem to be relatively deep (tens of meters). It must have been overwhelming for any animals living there to be buried in sudden ashfalls.

The John Day Fossil Beds in Oregon have some very colorful deposits that yield thousands of fossil mammals that were buried about 40 million years ago.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by edge, posted 04-09-2016 2:39 PM edge has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by AZPaul3, posted 04-12-2016 9:07 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 89 of 121 (781970)
04-12-2016 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by AZPaul3
04-12-2016 9:07 PM


... just the understatement ... it tickles ... deep!

It must have been overwhelming for any animals living there to be buried in sudden ashfalls.

doh, ya think?

Yeah, I know. My excuse is I was distracted, trying to remember where my John Day shots are and also, because I am working on a set of shots for a discussion of Hurricane Fault.

Plus, I am in the planning stages of a road trip through the SW and then continuing on to Tennessee to hook up with my best travel pal to look for an undescribed very large dragonfly that we have only seen twice. This trip will bee mid-May to mid-June.

Then we have another road trip to a DSA meeting in Utah in July.

Anyway, I think we have some more ashfall layers mixed into the exposed strata layers along the Hurricane Fault.

Besides, the ashfall deposits may not have been a single continuous event. There is layering within the deposits.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by AZPaul3, posted 04-12-2016 9:07 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 04-12-2016 10:04 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 91 of 121 (781972)
04-12-2016 10:22 PM


This is Quil Creek Reservoir, east of the town of Hurricane, Utah. We are looking west Note the exposed strata to the left and the three buttes in the distance. Zoom in for better detail.

Closer to the buttes we can see that they are uplifted on the side facing us and the flat surface on the top now tilts back away from us.

There is a long line of uplifted blocks following the south side of the fault visible here. The outcroppings on the right form an uplifted ridge on the north side of the fault.

I do not know what kinds of forces are buckling the surface along the fault. Are the two sides pushing against each other, or sliding along each other, or is something more complicated going on here?

I am assuming that this is the same Hurricane fault that crosses the Grand Canyon.

I have more shots from different positions including the back sides of the buttes.

I think it is interesting that it looks like the fault runs right through the middle of the reservoir and that houses and the town of Hurricane are right on top of the fault and around the buttes.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : grammer

Edited by Admin, : Narrow image width.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 92 of 121 (781973)
04-12-2016 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by jar
04-12-2016 10:04 PM


wings writes:

Besides, the ashfall deposits may not have been a single continuous event. There is layering within the deposits.


How can you know that is the case?

I am not sure what you mean, but in edge's shot you can see a horizontal band and in many other deposits, I have seen clear layering bands. I do not know what the layering represents as far as the deposition event(s). Sorry if I implied I did.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 04-12-2016 10:04 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by jar, posted 04-12-2016 10:59 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 94 of 121 (781976)
04-12-2016 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by jar
04-12-2016 10:59 PM


In the bottom picture above is the ash the white slab like pieces at the bottom of the picture?

No. Those are sandstone or limestone that were hauled from somewhere else. I think the light colored material that shows in the outcropping on the right is ash.

ABE: the light colored material in the center of the top photo looks like an ash deposit, also.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by jar, posted 04-12-2016 10:59 PM jar has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 96 of 121 (781978)
04-12-2016 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by edge
04-12-2016 11:28 PM


Coalmine Canyon east of Tuba City has some layers like that, I think

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by edge, posted 04-12-2016 11:28 PM edge has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 109 of 121 (782092)
04-15-2016 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by edge
04-15-2016 3:11 PM


Wow, good information. The Bisti Badlands look like a spot I would like to visit. Straight south of Farmington.

I found some material at Wikipedia about these deposits.

This area was on the west shore of the Western Interior Seaway 70 million years. If I understand this correctly the an ancient river delta left deposit 430 m thick after the seaway dried up.

It seems to me that the alternating nature of these layers between obviously forming in the seaway and above sea level, over long periods of time, including the burning of some of the lignite coal layers is support for the explanation that geological science gives us and is direct evidence against a recent global flood.

I would expect that since some of these deposits form on a river delta we should see some of the type of layering described by Walther's Law.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by edge, posted 04-15-2016 3:11 PM edge has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3272
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 119 of 121 (786743)
06-26-2016 2:25 PM


Unconformities?
Can an unconformity be easily identified as anywhere where both level and tilted strata are exposed?

These first two shots were taken along Hwy 26 in Wyoming, following the Wind River, west of Shoshone. I wasn't sure whether it is better to post this here or in the Road Trip - Dragonflies - Photography - Geology thread.....

N43.5787481 W109.7755929

One thing I noticed on this road trip was that there are huge (covering a large area), often thick layers of volcanic ash that is being exposed by erosion throughout the western U.S. These deposits are sandwiched between other sedimentary layers, so they should make radiometric dating relatively easy at many locations.

I had no idea that these igneous deposits were so common. The implications are that they must be from truly massive eruptions that blanketed huge swaths of territory with deposits many meters deep. Eruptions on this scale are unprecedented in human history.

Further west along Hwy 26 is another example that I assume shows several unconformities. N43.7236648 W110.0423707

One thing that is clear (to me) in these images is that the strata were not deposited in nice, level, flat, evenly thick layers. The deposition surfaces were often tilted and uplifted and eroded between deposition events or periods and this process is continuing today.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : Fixed clumsy wording


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-27-2016 5:59 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message

  
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