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Author | Topic: How does a flood ... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Thread copied here from the How does a flood ... thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined:
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A couple participants have already alluded to keeping discussion on topic and to the role of evidence in a scientific discussion, and I'd like to emphasize these points. From the Forum Guidelines:
Message 1 outlines the thread's topic, requesting descriptions of how the flood produced the evidence seen in the geologic record. Describe the evidence that convinced you of your position.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Hi Starlite,
You won't be permitted to carry on in this way for much longer. Please, no replies to this message. Edited by Admin, : Change subtitle.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
This is directly related to the question Jar raised in Message 1:
Please, no replies to this message.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Jar's opening post implies that there will be a series of questions. This is the first question from Message 1:
I think Faith has already provided an answer to this question in her Message 127:
Faith is saying that her model doesn't explain the ordering of fossils in the geologic record. The question has been answered, continuing to press Faith for answers she doesn't have is unproductive, so Jar should present the next question. Also, someone should help Faith understand Walther's Law. She thinks of it as explaining what a flood does as it advances and retreats across a landscape. She doesn't understand that it's actually about depositional environments moving laterally with marine transgressions and regressions, with whatever is in the water becoming gradually deposited on the bottom according to size, density and water energy. For Faith Walther's Law has become a name of convenience explaining whatever needs to be explained, and so it should be discussed until an understanding emerges. Please, no replies to this message.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
It's probably time to move on to the "next question," if you have one in mind.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Jar can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he thinks the Bible describes two separate floods. I think he meant that the Bible contains two separate accounts of the flood that are mutually inconsistent.
Again, Jar can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he's interpreting the flood scenario as depositing a single layer. I think he's saying the layers of a global flood should be distinctly different from those above deposited later by the gradual sedimentary processes that are ongoing today. Let me also clarify Jar's point involving "180 degrees." By "180 degrees" Jar means 180 degrees of longitude around the globe, in other words, the opposite side of the globe from the ark's final resting spot. He's saying that geologic layers from the 4500 years or so since the flood should contain evidence of life radiating out from that spot to gradually repopulate the globe. Please, no replies to this message, except for Jar if I've mistaken his meaning.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined:
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There's been a great deal of brevity at the expense of clarity recently. Where it appeared a message was misunderstood I offer my interpretation or ask for clarification:
Faith is repeating her belief that some sedimentary layers span the entire world, and argues that since it is obvious that the world of today could never erode down to a single sedimentary layer of one type that this never happened in the past, either. Dr Adequate tries to explain that Faith's take on geology is wrong, and Faith responds in a way that makes clear she understands what geology actually says, but is unable to accept it:
Faith can confirm, but I think Faith says this makes no sense because she rejects the possibility of sedimentary layers forming as a result of anything but a flood. She rejects the possibility of contemporary sedimentary layers forming in fresh water and marine environments, such as off coastlines, in shallow seas, and in the deep ocean. Dr Adequate responds:
I don't know why Dr Adequate is saying that Faith made it up. Unless one is being pedantic it looks like a pretty fair summary of how geology interprets the geologic column. PaulK appears to concur in Message 166. If Faith's description is wrong then it isn't clear to me how. Some clarification is needed.
Faith isn't replying to a specific post, but I think she's having as much trouble as me understanding Dr Adequate's and PaulK's objections. Again, some clarification please?
Faith has spelled out many details of how she thinks the flood happened - there's no need for going over old and very familiar ground. Jar, this is your thread. Faith has already stated she has no answer for your first question. If you have no "next question" then this thread should enter summation mode.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
This is a science thread, where a viewpoint's merits are measured according to scientifically gathered and evaluated evidence. Participants in science threads must be willing to have their views subjected to scientific scrutiny.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
You should more carefully read my Message 172 yourself. I said to Jar, 'If you have no "next question" then this thread should enter summation mode.' He then provided a "next question":
I told Jar earlier that this question would just go over very familiar ground - you've outlined your views many times. I will tell him again.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Obviously Faith thinks "a flood like one of the flood tales in the Bible happened." This thread should continue the process you described in Message 1:
You first asked, "How did the flood sort things so that there is a layer where there are no chordates while layers above do have chordates?" Faith has responded that she has no answer to that question, so it's time to move on to the next question. When I promoted this thread I assumed you had a progression of questions in mind, maybe I should have asked about them up front. If there's no "next question" then perhaps this thread should be put into summation mode.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined:
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Yes, I recall Message 152 now, it's been ignored. Rephrasing a little:
How does a world-wide flood deposit land layers with land life above sea layers with sea life?
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined:
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I think perhaps AdminPhat did not notice that I'm actively moderating this thread.
In the opening post Jar expressed a wish to explore the flood mechanisms that produced the geologic record, but he revealed only a single first question with the promise of more to come. Threads shouldn't be open ended, and so if this thread is to continue then I'll be making the final decisions about "next questions." I know Jar prefers a slightly different question, but I'm choosing this question anyway: How does a world-wide flood deposit land layers with land life above sea layers with sea life? Please end the off-topic complaining and discuss this question.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
This sounds like a typical YEC explanation without any foundation in how the world really works, nor any knowledge of the actual evidence out there, as Dr Adequate notes in Message 201.
Your question about sea life in one layer and both sea and land life in a higher layer perhaps needs an example of the situation you're asking about from someplace like the Grand Canyon.
As I said earlier, I probably should have developed a better impression of the rest of the questions you were going to ask before I promoted the topic. If you want to take the lead in asking the questions then I need a better idea of where you are going and how you see the progression of questions bringing issues of mechanism to light.
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Admin Director Posts: 12711 From: EvC Forum Joined:
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In the opinion of this moderator, no.
Since there's no indication of willingness to work with moderation, I'm placing this thread in summation mode.
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