Iconic Peppered Moth - gene mutation found

It's not weird at all. You simply are mistaking reality as usual. What happened is that the industrial revolution just happened to come along at exactly the right time to select for that trait.The mutation happened when it happened but it was the Industrial Revolution that selected for that mutation.It is a full system Faith and you need to consider both sides since both sides change. Similar mutations may well have been happening long before and mutations continue to happen all the time.Stop and think Faith.Your DNA can be identified as uniquely YOU. Why is that?Why is YOUR DNA different enough from MY DNA to be uniquely identified?Why is a parents DNA different from their child's DNA?Why is the DNA of siblings born from the same pair of parents different and unique to that child?It is the mutations.But it is Natural Selection that decides which of the constant mutations will get fixed in the population and it is sex that determines which will dominate.Mutations stay in the gene pool as long as the individual lives long enough to breed. If the individual does live long enough to breed then those genes including those mutations get passed on to the next generation.The Industrial Revolution covered everything in soot. Hungry birds ate all the light colored moths that now stood out against the soot. Those moths that did not stand out lived long enough to breed before getting eaten. Soon it was the darker moths that made up the population.Change leaves evidence.Edited by jar, : appalin spallinEdited by jar, : That ---> then.

The thing Faith needs to remember is that it really is a multipart system. Mutations causing dark moths may well have been happening all along but before the soot phase of the industrial revolution they were simply dinner. It was only when the selection pressure changed that the dark moths had an advantage.It was selection that determined this particular mutation got preserved. Any earlier examples of a similar mutation would have just been putting food on the table.

But Faith you have provided no evidence of any built in conditions and all the evidence shows that is NOT the case nor have you provided a model, process, mechanism, procedure or thingamabob that would explain how the genes would get transferred when the critter gets eaten immediately. Again, no one but you is making such a claim. We cannot know about the frequency or whether or not there are multiple genetic pathways to dark moths but all the evidence seems to show that there are several possible genetic pathways to almost any condition. Of course it is random just as selection is random. And we do know for a fact (as I have pointed out to you) that mutations do happen constantly and in every generation of almost every population (there are populations of cloned critters where there is no genetic variation but moths are not one of those critters).Remember when I pointed out to you that your DNA is unique and identifies YOU uniquely? Even the DNA of siblings born from the same Mother and Father is different enough to uniquely identify each individual.Those differences are due to mutations.So we know mutations happen all the time.We know that selection changes all the time.We know that samples of DNA from critters that lived tens of thousands of years ago show DNA that is still similar enough to what we see today to allow us to identify the species even when the sample is just from stomach contents.The current Theory of Evolution provided a model, mechanism, method and procedure that explains what is seen.The evidence from all lines of inquiry and science support that model.There is no "exquisite timing". The odds of anything that did happen in the past is now 100%.

I don't think so.Selection changes over time just as the genome changes over time. The environment at any given moment and location will be different from some other location and time.Would make an interesting thread?

There is a difference between unsupported assertions Faith and support for a theory.You need to provide evidence the alleles are built in and so far you have never done that. But you have not shown mutations are a crock and ALL of the evidence shows that mutations happen constantly.You have not yet made a point, only unsupported assertions.

You do understand Faith that whether or not you "trust this kind of science" is irrelevant; it is still the only science we have.It seems though that what you don't trust has nothing to do with the science but rather the conclusions that show your interpretation of the Bible stories is false. Yet the very study under discussion shows that not only was it a mutation but a specific mutation that dates from a specific period of time.Where is your study, model, method, process, procedure, thingamabob that we can compare to this study?

Actually, since Eve was cloned, Eve's alleles were Adam's.

The good doctor covered that long ago.

I think we need to repeat WHY that must be true.If such a mutation happened before the soot(lava) filled world the moth (mouse) would get eaten and so the trait, even though a dominate one, would not get passed on to future generations. The gene that would get passed to future generations would be the recessive one.In Faith's asserted world though both genes are in every critter since she is asserting that the potential for everything is built in in some original "kind" formula.The problem is that ALL of the very detailed evidence shows that is simply not the case. All the genetic evidence from long before Adam would have existed shows that things were pretty much like they are today.She simply does not believe the evidence.

There is one thing that you need to learn about probabilities Faith. The probability that some specific thing will happen after it is known that it DID happen is 100%.In the case of the peppered moth being discussed in this thread the probability is 100%.In the case of the mice, the probability that each of the DIFFERENT mutations happened is still 100%.The probability that humans descended from Chimpanzees is 100%Improbable things happen.When dealing with large populations and large numbers of events over long periods of time the probability of almost anything happening always approaches 100%