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Author Topic:   Does Atheism = No beliefs?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 205 of 414 (774532)
12-18-2015 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by deerbreh
12-18-2015 3:02 PM


Disbelief is a belief. Lack of a belief in God is the same as believing there is no God. Whether we call God a god, a deity or a supernatural being does not really matter. If you are sure there is no god you are an atheist.
I disagree. If not believing in supernatural entities is a belief, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.
I just cannot have any mental acceptance that these types of entities could exist without evidence and I have encountered no credible evidence in my life for the existence of any supernatural realm or entities.
I remember when I had faith and belief and what that felt like, and I remember the instant when I realized that I could not be a rational being with such faith and beliefs, and it feels completely different than that belief.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by deerbreh, posted 12-18-2015 3:02 PM deerbreh has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 218 of 414 (774621)
12-19-2015 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by kbertsche
12-19-2015 10:06 PM


For the life of me I don't understand why this endless argument goes on and on.
And why believers feel they must try and fit those who don't believe into their predefined niches.
In my mind, there is a distinct difference between "I do not believe in a god or gods" and "I believe god or gods do not exist."
I am an atheist and I do not believe in a god or gods or anything supernatural.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by kbertsche, posted 12-19-2015 10:06 PM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by kbertsche, posted 12-20-2015 12:18 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 232 of 414 (774656)
12-20-2015 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by kbertsche
12-20-2015 12:18 AM


But how realistic is it to hold the first position without also holding the second? How common is this among atheists?
In my own case, I don't need to "believe" anything. I try to reach conclusions based on evidence or the lack of it.
I have no idea what other atheists think. My closest friends all say their conclusions are the same as mine. We all are a bit frustrated that religious people cannot seem to grasp that our lives are not belief driven.
I have begun to think that there may just be a difference in the way that believers and non-believers brains are wired.
It is as if people who take things on faith cannot imagine a thought process that does not.
I find that I often have an internal reaction when I see people make claims about the "strength of their faith." For example when George Bush said Jesus was his biggest hero or something like that during one of the debates, I thought to myself, "what a phoney."
I have the same internal reaction when I hear people make claims of prayer changing the outcome of events.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by kbertsche, posted 12-20-2015 12:18 AM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Phat, posted 12-20-2015 11:25 AM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 246 by kbertsche, posted 12-20-2015 3:07 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 237 of 414 (774662)
12-20-2015 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by Phat
12-20-2015 11:25 AM


Re: Where does current evidence lead?
Based on the evidence (or the lack thereof), what would you say is the most creative known force in the universe?
The most creative known force??
The human mind, I guess, but "most creative" implies a scale of creativeness with no explanation, and "known" assume something both you and I are aware of, "force" just makes me think of Star Wars. According to Wikipedia: in physics, a force is any interaction that, when unopposed, will change the motion of an object, so maybe pairs figure scating would be a better answer.
Oh wait, I have a better one: the incredible flight of a pair of large dragonflies in copulation. Based on the evidence, that is the most creative known force in the Universe.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Phat, posted 12-20-2015 11:25 AM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 248 of 414 (774678)
12-20-2015 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by kbertsche
12-20-2015 3:07 PM


Tany writes:
In my own case, I don't need to "believe" anything. I try to reach conclusions based on evidence or the lack of it.
Yes, of course. I believe that the tooth fairy does not exist. This is based on lack of evidence in the tooth fairy, and evidence for a simpler alternative explanation.
I believe in the law of gravity. This is based on my own experience as well as evidence and experiment.
OK good, It is great that you have a worldview, inner vision, position that is consistent and that gives you a sense of inner satisfaction.
My path to a sense of inner satisfaction, is different from yours. I have changed and refined my vision of myself and the Universe over the years, but for a long time now I have made a conscious effort to not think about things in terms of belief.
By the same token, I do not use the term theorize to mean "wild ass guess" instead I use the term "wild ass guess."
I use hypothesize when I am trying to frame questions about observations that I want to understand.
I use theory in the way it is used in science; a compilation of all the observations, discoveries, facts, and evidence into a self-consistent and coherent description of a phenomena, such as evolution, general relativity or quantum mechanics.
I have intentionally arranged my personal way of thinking about these things in this particular way because it perfectly fits my sense of inner satisfaction. I don't know that I can make my position any clearer than that.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by kbertsche, posted 12-20-2015 3:07 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 278 of 414 (774905)
12-24-2015 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Tangle
12-24-2015 1:36 PM


I know I shouldn't ask this, but I am waiting for the wife to finish her last minute shopping.
Why are you guys all going around and around about what you call yourselves and each other based on the fine nuances of "I believe or I don't believe or I believe not?"
What difference does it make in any of your lives?
I call myself tall and good looking and I don't care what any of you say.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2015 1:36 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by kjsimons, posted 12-24-2015 3:18 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied
 Message 280 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2015 4:11 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied
 Message 281 by NoNukes, posted 12-24-2015 9:33 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(3)
Message 285 of 414 (786154)
06-17-2016 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Hawkins
06-17-2016 1:52 PM


Camp 1) however, as influenced (subconsciously) by the "life discontinues" faith fallaciously conclude that they should stay until more evidence showing that it's not a hoax.
Atheism is such a religion with a large group of humans sharing a common belief.
In my case, this is totally incorrect. My atheism has nothing to do with life after death.
My atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of any gods.
There is an old saying: "If atheism is a religion, then NOT collecting stamps is a hobby."

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Hawkins, posted 06-17-2016 1:52 PM Hawkins has not replied

  
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