Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
8 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,453 Year: 3,710/9,624 Month: 581/974 Week: 194/276 Day: 34/34 Hour: 0/14


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1531 of 1639 (786507)
06-22-2016 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1522 by Theodoric
06-21-2016 6:21 PM


Theodoric writes:
Why is it obvious? Show some support for your argument.
I'm not making an argument. I'm asking a question.
If I'm in a canoe and I move to the left, I need an equal and opposite shift of weight to the right to avoid turning over. Why is it different in politics?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1522 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2016 6:21 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1532 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2016 4:34 PM ringo has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1532 of 1639 (786518)
06-22-2016 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1531 by ringo
06-22-2016 3:56 PM


If I'm in a canoe and I move to the left, I need an equal and opposite shift of weight to the right to avoid turning over. Why is it different in politics?
Because the laws of physics don't influence politics.
Seems quite silly to think the two things are at all related.
I do think if the Democratic Party advocated for state sponsored socialism there would be backlash, because that is far out of the norm. What Bernie Sanders has advocated is well within the norm.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1531 by ringo, posted 06-22-2016 3:56 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1534 by ringo, posted 06-22-2016 4:43 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1533 of 1639 (786519)
06-22-2016 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1530 by ringo
06-22-2016 3:53 PM


Because there is no evidence to show such a thing. If there is evidence please show it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1530 by ringo, posted 06-22-2016 3:53 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1535 by ringo, posted 06-22-2016 4:44 PM Theodoric has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1534 of 1639 (786520)
06-22-2016 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1532 by Theodoric
06-22-2016 4:34 PM


Theodoric writes:
Because the laws of physics don't influence politics.
Seems quite silly to think the two things are at all related.
On the contrary, I don't see why the two wouldn't be analogous.
Theodoric writes:
I do think if the Democratic Party advocated for state sponsored socialism there would be backlash, because that is far out of the norm.
That's what I was asking. So your answer is "yes", not "no".
Theodoric writes:
What Bernie Sanders has advocated is well within the norm.
I would think that the word "socialist" alone would be enough to cause a backlash.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1532 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2016 4:34 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1538 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2016 8:08 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1535 of 1639 (786521)
06-22-2016 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1533 by Theodoric
06-22-2016 4:35 PM


Theodoric writes:
Because there is no evidence to show such a thing.
I asked a question and you answered "no". The onus is on you to provide backing for your answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1533 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2016 4:35 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1537 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2016 8:04 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 1536 of 1639 (786525)
06-22-2016 5:33 PM


What if Hillary picks Rep. John Lewis, aged 76, to be her running mate?

- xongsmith, 5.7d

Replies to this message:
 Message 1539 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2016 10:21 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1537 of 1639 (786534)
06-22-2016 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1535 by ringo
06-22-2016 4:44 PM


I said there is no evidence to show you are correct. What more can I say?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1535 by ringo, posted 06-22-2016 4:44 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1538 of 1639 (786535)
06-22-2016 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1534 by ringo
06-22-2016 4:43 PM


The US is a socialist country. A poor example of one, but many of our institutions are socialist already. This is an argument the right is trying to use but it is only getting traction among a small population. Again, show some evidence to back your assumptions.
The two are no where near analogous. In order for them to be analogous political change would have to only function one way like a scientific law. Not sure how you can show that as happening.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1534 by ringo, posted 06-22-2016 4:43 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1540 by ringo, posted 06-23-2016 12:19 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 1539 of 1639 (786539)
06-22-2016 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1536 by xongsmith
06-22-2016 5:33 PM


What if Hillary picks Rep. John Lewis, aged 76, to be her running mate?
Then ... that would be quite surprising?
He hugged me once. This is not particularly relevant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1536 by xongsmith, posted 06-22-2016 5:33 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1540 of 1639 (786567)
06-23-2016 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1538 by Theodoric
06-22-2016 8:08 PM


Theodoric writes:
The US is a socialist country. A poor example of one, but many of our institutions are socialist already.
It makes no diference whether the US "is" socialist or not. The point is that the word "socialist" is enough to get some people almost in a lynching mood. To those people, a candidate self-identifying as "socialist" - whether he really "is" socialist or not - is almost certain to drive some people to vote for anybody but him, isn't it?
I may not have any "evidence" for what's blatantly obvious but that doesn't stop it from being blatantly obvious. You and I both know that people will bend over to pick up a dollar that they find on the street, whether there are any scholarly studies on the subject or not.
Theodoric writes:
This is an argument the right is trying to use but it is only getting traction among a small population.
So your answer is, "Yes, among a small (segment of the) population," not, "No."
Theodoric writes:
Not sure how you can show that as happening.
You just did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1538 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2016 8:08 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1542 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2016 3:48 PM ringo has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 499 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 1541 of 1639 (786571)
06-23-2016 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1529 by Taq
06-22-2016 3:52 PM


Taq writes:
Martin Luther King, Jr. could have played it safe. African Americans could still be suffering from some form of segregation, but at least they wouldn't have been clubbed by policemen, right?
You conveniently left out the part where the right wing conservatives at the time were also doing some pretty disgusting things, including shutting down the public school system, beating and murdering black folks, etc. The KKK at the time was still one of the most powerful organizations in the south.
Conservatives nowadays have learned their lesson. If they tried to push the country too far to the right, most people would be turned off by it and progressive policies would win the day. That's why they've come up with bullshit stances like hate the sin but love the sinner, traditional marriage, etc.
What MLK Jr. did worked because the conservatives at the time ape shit crazy. The same cannot be said today.
I've also noticed that you conveniently ignored the prop 8 thing when I pointed it out. Let me repeat. The liberal elements in California pushed for marriage equality too fast and it resulted in the most liberal state in the country to pass prop 8 via popular vote. This fact cannot be ignored.

If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1529 by Taq, posted 06-22-2016 3:52 PM Taq has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1542 of 1639 (786578)
06-23-2016 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1540 by ringo
06-23-2016 12:19 PM


The right and trump already had that population. It is called the right wing base. They are already to the right they can only move further right.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1540 by ringo, posted 06-23-2016 12:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1544 by 14174dm, posted 06-23-2016 4:32 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 1546 by NoNukes, posted 06-23-2016 5:58 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 1553 by ringo, posted 06-24-2016 12:26 PM Theodoric has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1543 of 1639 (786583)
06-23-2016 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1528 by Percy
06-22-2016 3:33 PM


Re: Can Trump buy the election?
Though many are rarely mentioned in the press, we know a number of members of the Trump inner circle and can begin guessing who might become members of the Trump staff and cabinet. Ivanka Trump might become Chief of Staff, Donald Trump Jr. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Eric Trump Secretary of the Interior, Michael Cohen Attorney General, Paul Manafort Secretary of Commerce, and Hope Hicks Press Secretary.
Yikes. Thanks for a disturbing afternoon thought. Guess I'd best skip that nap I had planned. I might end up in a dream that I'd welcome having Freddy Krueger interrupt.
Fun fact that doesn't matter but that I'm surprised I didn't already know: Ivanka converted to Judaism in 2009 and took the name Yael before marrying.
You did not know it because you don't generally know what church/synagogue/mosque any of the Trumps attend? Now if Ivanka was a former member of the Nation of Islam, perhaps that would be a face palm moment.
It should not be legal for billionaires to throw their money at election campaigns, not their own or anyone's.
I assume that this sentiment also applies to non-billionaires as well billionaires. If you can figure out a way to do this constitutionally, I'd like to hear how that might work. What I find more problematic than the money the candidates spend is the money spent by anonymous non-candidate sources on behalf of their candidates. That money generally dwarfs the amounts the candidates have access to. Yet I see no constitutional way to outlaw such spending.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1528 by Percy, posted 06-22-2016 3:33 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1130 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 1544 of 1639 (786586)
06-23-2016 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1542 by Theodoric
06-23-2016 3:48 PM


The Republicans have to stay far enough right that the Libertarian candidates don't pick up enough from the Republicans to cause a Democrat win. According to RealClearPolitics.com, Johnson (L) is polling at very roughly the difference between Clinton & Trump.
But Republicans can't move too far right to lose the Independent-ish Republican-ish people to non-vote or Democrat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1542 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2016 3:48 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1545 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2016 5:42 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 1545 of 1639 (786590)
06-23-2016 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1544 by 14174dm
06-23-2016 4:32 PM


On most issues Libertarians are not to the right of the Repubs. Then again Libertarians change their views daily. Anything that threatens their personal greed, they are against. The party of the spoiled rotten child. Worse than repubs in that manner.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1544 by 14174dm, posted 06-23-2016 4:32 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024