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Author | Topic: Brexit - Should they stay or should they go? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
caffeine writes:
The EU's failures seem like a reasonable enough reason to exit. One of the things that I think drove the Brexit vote was opposition to the EU commission's failed attempts to get member-states to accept refugees. Conversely, if the EU considers Britain such a valuable partner, isn't it likely that they'll negotiate a new partnership that is beneficial to both sides?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
ringo writes: Conversely, if the EU considers Britain such a valuable partner, isn't it likely that they'll negotiate a new partnership that is beneficial to both sides? It's a difficult calculation. On the one hand they need the UK as a trading partner, on the other hand if they are open to a compromise they invite other states to leave too. The way it's sounding is that they'll be open to a free trade deal - at a price, but free movement of people may be something they won't give way on. Our side seems to be softening on that last - which is outrageous. Boris will find his head on a spike at Tower Hill if he's not very careful. But it's not even started yet.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 998 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
It's a difficult calculation. On the one hand they need the UK as a trading partner, on the other hand if they are open to a compromise they invite other states to leave too. That's the big chess game right now. The EU leadership is fully aware of the fact that other countries are watching this carefully, wondering about the feasibility of their own referendums.
The way it's sounding is that they'll be open to a free trade deal - at a price, but free movement of people may be something they won't give way on. Our side seems to be softening on that last - which is outrageous. I think the UK conservatives would be crucified if they suddenly started to go lax on movement of people, since immigration control was the primary reason stipulated from the Leave camp. The big issue we have now is several bombastic politicians both in the UK and in the EU that will be more concerned about saving face and maintaining power as opposed to doing what's right. That's politics for you. The big issue globally is the uncertainty. The longer this drags on, the worse things will get.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
The EU's failures seem like a reasonable enough reason to exit. Not unless you think every policy the Federal government fails to carry out is good reason for Sakatchewan to secede. Obviously giving up your right to vote is not a way to succeed in changing an institution's policy. But given that those who wanted to leave the EU are also those who most wanted the Commission's plans for refugees to fail, I'm somewhat baffled as to what point you're trying to make.
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ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
caffeine writes:
Yes, I think failures on the part of the federal government would be valid reasons for provinces to consider separation. That's been happening in Quebec for decades with two referendums. Any time you're a member of a group it's healthy to think about why you might want to get out.
Not unless you think every policy the Federal government fails to carry out is good reason for Sakatchewan to secede. caffeine writes:
Is that a given? I know that the people who voted for exit are being branded as racists but I'm not buying it.
... given that those who wanted to leave the EU are also those who most wanted the Commission's plans for refugees to fail....
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2497 Joined: |
quote: Hardly a good sign for those who supported exit. This was so predictable. On the plus side, I heard there are (already!) some 3-4 million signatures for a new vote. I hope there is a genuine tie-breaker vote avaliable soon. I hope.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2497 Joined: |
My link above won't enable you to read it, but you need to find it in google to read. WSJ articles are tricky to read. It is an hour old. I found it by typing "british pound" into google. Just quote some sentences to find it.
Anyway, here is an important part, from the article, I want people to see.
quote: Higher interest rates means less money for spending on programs plus it means higher taxes. Brexit brought this about and it was very predictable. Economics 101.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Yes, I think failures on the part of the federal government would be valid reasons for provinces to consider separation. That's been happening in Quebec for decades with two referendums. Any time you're a member of a group it's healthy to think about why you might want to get out. Seems an odd attitude to me. The time to get out would be the time at which it appears that the European Commission succeeded in every one of it's proposals, because this would mean we were actually in the situation Euroskeptics complained about - the dictatorial central power which could act without regard for the interests of the member states. If the EU is functioning as it should then the Commission should not be able to impose its will.
Is that a given? I know that the people who voted for exit are being branded as racists but I'm not buying it. I didn't say they were racists; but yes it is a given that they were opposed to the Commission's refugee plan. Not necessarily all of them I doubt 17 million people were of one mind; but the primary concern stated by leave voters was that immigration was too high.
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Larni Member (Idle past 114 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
quote: Nope. It's down to not understanding what they were voting for and the time honoured Pavlovian response to the word 'immigrants'. Over estimate the average person in the streets ability to vote in their own best interest at your peril. The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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jar Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So enough of the irrelevancies; what about the important stuff.
Does this mean that in the future UK teams will not be eligible to play in the Euro? Will it mean UK golfers will not be eligible to play in the Ryder Cup series?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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Jar writes: So enough of the irrelevancies; what about the important stuff.Does this mean that in the future UK teams will not be eligible to play in the Euro? Will it mean UK golfers will not be eligible to play in the Ryder Cup series? We're still part of Europe - there hasn't been any movement of tectonic pates.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
caffeine writes:
That's what seems like an odd attitude to me. I would want to get out when I found out that there was a dictatorial attitude, not after waiting to see if they were any good at it.
The time to get out would be the time at which it appears that the European Commission succeeded in every one of it's proposals, because this would mean we were actually in the situation Euroskeptics complained about - the dictatorial central power which could act without regard for the interests of the member states.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
That's what seems like an odd attitude to me. I would want to get out when I found out that there was a dictatorial attitude, not after waiting to see if they were any good at it. 'Dictatoial attitude' in this context meaning what? Proposing a policy?
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Diomedes Member Posts: 998 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
Brexit Leader Boris Johnson Rules Out Bid To Be Next British Prime Minister | HuffPost The WorldPost
quote: Well that is a bit of a shock. I wonder if Boris was never expecting Leave to win and now that it has, he doesn't want to be at the helm. Probably realizing how rocky the waters will be moving forward.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
Why would he want to be PM while Britain burns(figuratively not literally)?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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