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Author Topic:   Can fundamentalists explain Job 26:12-13 for me?
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 2417
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1 of 3 (787130)
07-04-2016 5:57 PM


It mentions Rahab (the much forgotten Rahab, not the harlot of Jericho) and the period of chaos before the creation (or just during it) of man, near the very beginning.
I think it refers to a mythological dragon, and thus the debate among fundamentalists should be whether the Canaanites borrowed the dragon myth from the Hebrews (which fundamentalists assume to have existed before the 13th century) or whether the Hebrews borrowed it from the Canaanites.
But before we get to that stage, we need to figure out if a primeval dragon is even mentioned here in Job 26. (Can we all agree that the primeval period is the subject?)
Actually the first step is to refuse to ignore the issue. Those on this site are less likely to ignore the issue and its implications. The fundamentalist community at large (and the entire world for the matter, Christian or not) is another issue. Ignorance is the order of the day - naturally.
But since we are on EVC, then we can skip the last paragraph and its "first step" question.
Lets first ask if a primeval dragon is even being covered in the text of Job 26:12-13.
Then we should ask who borrowed from whom. Who is the who and who is the whom?
This is a question that has lots of potential for clarity, though questions exist. (for example, Lambert says that Enuma Elish wasn't written till 1074 BCE and that the dragon slaying myth most likely came from the Levant, and not from Mesopotamia, and infact the Canaanites - if not the Hebrews - had the theme first.) I start out quite impressed by the amount of evidence that we have to answer this question, anyway.
So start answering so I can watch the discussion.
Thanks alot.

LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2417
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2 of 3 (787153)
07-05-2016 3:35 PM


Text of Job 26.
This is the entire chapter. Notice, below, how verse 10 is parallel to the dry land appearing (a feature of one of the days in Genesis), verses 12 to 13 mention the waters below being separated from the waters above, etc. The piercing of the "fleeing serpent" is a reference to the Rahab monster just mentioned. It clearly refers to the heavens being separated.
quote:
Then Job answered:
2
How you have helped one who has no power!
How you have assisted the arm that has no strength!
3
How you have counseled one who has no wisdom,
and given much good advice!
4
With whose help have you uttered words,
and whose spirit has come forth from you?
5
The shades below tremble,
the waters and their inhabitants.
6
Sheol is naked before God,
and Abaddon has no covering.
7
He stretches out Zaphon[a] over the void,
and hangs the earth upon nothing.
8
He binds up the waters in his thick clouds,
and the cloud is not torn open by them.
9
He covers the face of the full moon,
and spreads over it his cloud.
10
He has described a circle on the face of the waters,
at the boundary between light and darkness.
11
The pillars of heaven tremble,
and are astounded at his rebuke.
12
By his power he stilled the Sea;
by his understanding he struck down Rahab.
13
By his wind the heavens were made fair;
his hand pierced the fleeing serpent.
14
These are indeed but the outskirts of his ways;
and how small a whisper do we hear of him!
But the thunder of his power who can understand?
This was the New Revised Standard Version.
We never hear about a sea monster when we have to deal with creation science and school classroom issues. It needs to be brought up (for sure) when discussing this creation evolution issue.
And this entire chapter covers the time before the creation of any life - sealife or otherwise. This is the primeval period, essentially the period of chaos and early creation. This was a chaos monster.
Job 26 ( alone!) is solid evidence that the early days of Genesis clearly are related to an earlier Enuma Elish type of situation with a pierced monster being used to associate the separation of waters for the heavens (and the associated dome), earthly waters, and separation/creation of dry land.
See Psalms 89 too.
quote:
5
Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord,
your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones.
6
For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?
Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,
7
a God feared in the council of the holy ones,
great and awesome above all that are around him?
8
O Lord God of hosts,
who is as mighty as you, O Lord?
Your faithfulness surrounds you.
9
You rule the raging of the sea;
when its waves rise, you still them.
10
You crushed Rahab like a carcass;
you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm.
11
The heavens are yours, the earth also is yours;
the world and all that is in ityou have founded them.
12
The north and the south[c]you created them;
Tabor and Hermon joyously praise your name
Here we have Psalms 89:9-11 and the context of creation of the heavens.
"You rule the raging of the sea;
when its waves rise, you still them.
You crushed Rahab like a carcass;
you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm.
The heavens are yours, the earth also is yours;
the world and all that is in ityou have founded them."
Just like Job 26:12-13
"By his power he stilled the Sea;
by his understanding he struck down Rahab.
By his wind the heavens were made fair;
his hand pierced the fleeing serpent."
The evidence is like 99.9% that the Israelites saw the creation story as part of a myth involving a mythological dragon being slayed to create the heavens.
How can anyone deny it?
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

AdminPhat
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Message 3 of 3 (787163)
07-06-2016 4:30 AM


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