Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8965 total)
61 online now:
14174dm, AZPaul3, DrJones*, GDR, jar, PsychMJC, Tangle (7 members, 54 visitors)
Newest Member: javier martinez
Post Volume: Total: 873,080 Year: 4,828/23,288 Month: 1,733/1,286 Week: 47/353 Day: 47/45 Hour: 3/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A Bronze Standard
Coyote
Member (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 3 of 41 (788391)
07-30-2016 11:22 PM


It all comes down to the dating
I predict that the dating will be questioned.

For creationists, the biblical flood is a movable event! We've seen it placed anywhere from 2000 BCE back to a few hundred million years ago--or more.

For any time period where you present evidence to the contrary, the flood will show up elsewhere (elsewhen?).

I have from my own archaeological work mtDNA evidence from 5,300 years ago that shows a direct and continuous link to living descendants, with no change over to Middle Eastern mtDNA types. So naturally I've been told the dating is wrong.

Other archaeologists have provided the same evidence going back 10,300 years. Same result.

In the Old World DNA continuity is now stretching back 50,000 years and more. Same result.

When creationists use rubber band years for the date of the flood, any fact-based arguments fall on deaf ears. For any evidence you can present, the flood is always somewhere else, and round and round we go.

And then they claim to be doing science!!!???


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by NoNukes, posted 07-31-2016 1:17 AM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 25 of 41 (788468)
07-31-2016 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
07-31-2016 9:13 PM


Re: My point was about the text used by New Testament quotations.
...all that is important is for the flood believers to say "It happened X years ago."

And no two creationists seem to place the flood at the same time. Each has a favorite time.

And when shown that the evidence contradicts that time (i.e., the evidence shows there was no global flood at that time) creationists just change the time. Dates range from about 4,250 years ago to hundreds of millions of years ago. If one date is disproved they just pick another, eventually ending up where they started. Around and around we go.

This just shows that creationists are relying on belief, and trying to fit evidence into that belief--no matter how poor the fit or how many are the contradictions.

And then they claim to be doing science!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 07-31-2016 9:13 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 9:53 AM Coyote has responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 28 of 41 (788494)
08-01-2016 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Faith
08-01-2016 9:53 AM


Re: My point was about the text used by New Testament quotations.
Coyote writes:

And no two creationists seem to place the flood at the same time. Each has a favorite time.

Faith writes:

This is false. What "creationists" are you referring to? Most creationists I trust accept a date around 4300 to 4500 years ago, and the only reason I don't have a fixed date is that I keep forgetting how all the numbers add up, but it is certainly possible to pin it down from the Biblical information based on the genealogies given in the Bible. Other dates would have no biblical support.


If you accept a date in the 4300-4500 range, why are you concerned with rocks and geological strata? Those are all far older.

Coyote writes:

And when shown that the evidence contradicts that time (i.e., the evidence shows there was no global flood at that time) creationists just change the time.

Faith writes:

Nonsense. Who does this? A reference please.


When no evidence for a global flood is found in soils which date around 4300 years ago, you and many other creationists look to rock layers dated many million to hundreds of millions of years ago.

Coyote writes:

Dates range from about 4,250 years ago to hundreds of millions of years ago. If one date is disproved they just pick another, eventually ending up where they started. Around and around we go.

Faith writes:

Oh nonsense. I've stuck to the date range above all along as is common among YECs.


You may think you are sticking to the 4300-4500 date range but your claims for a global flood rely on geological strata that are millions of years old.

And in order to perform these mental gymnastics you must use the most tortured of rubber band years, compressing billions of years into a few thousand. Unfortunately for those claims, all the scientific evidence shows that they are incorrect, but as those claims are based on belief rather than evidence this seems to be of no consequence.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 9:53 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 11:57 AM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 36 of 41 (788514)
08-01-2016 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
08-01-2016 12:08 PM


Re: My point was about the text used by New Testament quotations.
Coyote on the other hand can't seem to process the fact that creationists have a different view of the evidence than he does. To him the strata just ARE ABSOLUTELY hundreds of millions of years old, and he can't seem to recognize even the possibility that I really do see them as only thousands of years old.

I am fully aware that creationists have a different view of the evidence than do scientists, and that you see those ancient layers as only a few thousand years old.

But that view requires ignoring vast amounts of contradictory evidence, misrepresenting and misinterpreting the rest, and going on a massive scavenger hunt for anything that might possibly support your view--no matter how tenuous or contrary to the real-world evidence.

Your posts claiming that every type of scientific dating is completely wrong (without any evidence that this is so), and your insistence that the bible has to be correct (in spite of evidence to the contrary) show this very clearly.

In science and the real world, belief is not evidence!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 12:08 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020