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Author Topic:   A Bronze Standard
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 41 (788393)
07-31-2016 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coyote
07-30-2016 11:22 PM


Re: It all comes down to the dating
I predict that the dating will be questioned.

For some folks, the date of the flood is movable. For the rest of the folks, the dates of historical and pre-historical events and artifacts are questions. There are artifacts much older than the flood, (e.g. cave paintings in France and Asia, Stonehenge) that predate the flood, as well as things that are closely contemporary to the flood (e.g. Pyramids) any one of which renders the Flood an impossibility. Creationists respond to that evidence by challenging dating methods.

Unfortunately, I think that means that we should not expect great creationist responses to this thread. Our primary participant denies dating methods, but has no clue as to why those methods might be wrong.

Here is a web page from icr questioning the age of Stonehenge (as they must):

http://www.icr.org/article/recent-origin-for-stonehenge/

quote:
First, we can reject the stone artifact’s reported ages, ranging from 6000 to 2500 B.C., for at least two reasons. Secular archaeologists regularly select dates simply because they align with the evolutionary timescale of human history, but Institute for Creation Research scientists, along with other researchers, have amply demonstrated why that timescale has failed. Enlightenment era secularists concocted it, and their disciples continue to systematically reject any dates that don’t fit, protecting their timescale with what amounts to mere circular reasoning.2 Another reason to reject their reported ages is that they dismiss written records detailing Britain’s past and similar records from several ancient European nations that trace royal ancestries all the way back to Japheth son of Noah.3

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Coyote, posted 07-30-2016 11:22 PM Coyote has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2016 4:23 AM NoNukes has seen this message

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 41 (788396)
07-31-2016 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Adequate
07-31-2016 1:22 AM


Where does Tubal-Cain fit into all this?

The reference to Tubal-Cain is used to show that Noah may have had access to iron tools. Tools of that sort are depicted at the Noah's Ark exhibit in Kentucky. I'm not sure that Tubal-Cain is used to question the dates of the iron age. Also from what I've read, there were folks that worked in iron that was found in meteorites even before the technology of the day was capable of smelting iron. Tubal-Cain may have worked in extra-terrestrial iron even before the true iron age.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2016 1:22 AM Dr Adequate has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-31-2016 11:11 AM NoNukes has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 41 (788443)
07-31-2016 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by LamarkNewAge
07-31-2016 2:21 PM


Re: What about the "sight to the blind" issue, Faith?
supposedly the Biblical flood, whichever of the Biblical Flood stories is considered, happened about 2500-2000 BCE.
That firmly places the Biblical Flood, if it had happened, during the Bronze Age.

Sorry to break it to you bud, but the Bronze Age started around 3000 BCE.

Why is it that you cannot see that those two statements do not conflict? The Bronze age starting in 3000BCE and lasting nearly 2000 years is perfectly consistent with the dates assigned by fundamentalists to the flood as listed by jar.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-31-2016 2:21 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-31-2016 7:30 PM NoNukes has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 41 (788505)
08-01-2016 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
08-01-2016 11:57 AM


Re: My point was about the text used by New Testament quotations.
This is the worst case of paradigm cramp I've ever seen.

Surely you must mean other than your own posts.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 11:57 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 12:08 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 41 (788507)
08-01-2016 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by LamarkNewAge
08-01-2016 11:20 AM


Re: My (truely) last post on this thread. Even if I get more b.s. responses.
Egyptian and Levantine historians date the start of the Bronze Age later than the 3300 date scientists will accept as latest.

That level of detail does not matter. Are there historians that exclude the period between around 2500 to 2000 BC from the Bronze age for the relevant area of the world in which Noah would have lived? If not, then what is your point?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-01-2016 11:20 AM LamarkNewAge has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 41 (788518)
08-01-2016 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
08-01-2016 12:08 PM


Re: My point was about the text used by New Testament quotations.
I am capable of recognizing the point of view of the opposition that I am disagreeing with

Sometimes you do, yes. But I can cite plenty of occasions where you misstate the scientific point of view that you disagree with. Sometimes you do manage to get on the right track, but not always.

Coyote on the other hand can't seem to process the fact that creationists have a different view of the evidence than he does.

In fact the view you have on some of the evidence he cites is pure dismissal without rationale. For example, you have no interpretation of radiometric dating other than to proclaim such dating wrong. Not a matter of interpretation at all.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 12:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 3:08 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 41 of 41 (788535)
08-01-2016 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Faith
08-01-2016 3:08 PM


Re: My point was about the text used by New Testament quotations.
just being aware that there IS a point of view opposed to me is more than Coyote seems to be aware of.

Again, with respect to radiometric dating, you don't have any kind of interpretation. You simply say that dating is wrong. Coyote is certainly aware that you reject dating for non scientific reasons. His posts describe your belief accurately. So yes he is acknowledging your point of view.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 3:08 PM Faith has taken no action

  
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