Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9076 total)
100 online now:
dwise1, Phat, Tangle, xongsmith (4 members, 96 visitors)
Newest Member: Contrarian
Post Volume: Total: 893,958 Year: 5,070/6,534 Month: 490/794 Week: 116/89 Day: 0/14 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Describing what the Biblical Flood would be like.
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 242 (788502)
08-01-2016 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
08-01-2016 9:37 AM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
You don't get to win a debate about the Flood by simply declaring your prejudice that the Flood didn't happen.

He did a bit more than that. He alluded to, admittedly without citation, evidence that the flood did not occur; namely the continuity of human life and civilizations over the relevant period indicating no interruption by a global flood. Coyote has made that argument in varying levels of detail an endless number of times since you've been here.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 9:37 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 12:04 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 711 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 32 of 242 (788503)
08-01-2016 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
08-01-2016 11:10 AM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
It's been proved a million times over at EvC already, with all the features of a model and all the rest of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 08-01-2016 11:10 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 08-01-2016 12:13 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 711 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 33 of 242 (788504)
08-01-2016 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by NoNukes
08-01-2016 12:03 PM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
It amounts to no more than saying "my dates are right, and yours are wrong." It's not an argument, it's an assertion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by NoNukes, posted 08-01-2016 12:03 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by NoNukes, posted 08-01-2016 6:01 PM Faith has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 34 of 242 (788508)
08-01-2016 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
08-01-2016 12:03 PM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
Faith writes:

It's been proved a million times over at EvC already, with all the features of a model and all the rest of it.

then provide a link to those posts or stop making that claim.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 12:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 12:19 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 711 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 35 of 242 (788511)
08-01-2016 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jar
08-01-2016 12:13 PM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
It's implicit in hundreds of posts over a dozen years and Percy once called you on your constant bleating about the lack of a model and method, pointing out places where what I said clearly amounted to a model or method. For you to keep on about this is just obfuscating noise intended to misrepresent your opponents. It's YOU who should stop your accusation.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 08-01-2016 12:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 08-01-2016 12:23 PM Faith has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 36 of 242 (788513)
08-01-2016 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
08-01-2016 12:19 PM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
Again, please provide the links because there is no flood model in existence that can explain what is seen in reality.

This topic is about explaining what a Biblical Flood would be like as well as why it must look that way. Unless you can provide some support for the Biblical Flood the answer is conclusively, "It just never happened."


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 12:19 PM Faith has taken no action

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 662 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 37 of 242 (788517)
08-01-2016 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
07-31-2016 9:55 PM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
nobody can ever say anything with such finality about an event in the prehistoric past, all anybody is doing on both sides of the question is guessing

No. There are no two sides. There's science and then there's the lunatic brigade. Apples and oranges are not different enough - more like apples and bucket of mercury.

Can't you see how silly your magical arguments are? When someone presents you problems that reality present, you wave everything off with magic (this time it's magical olive tree that can withstand soggy soil).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 07-31-2016 9:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 08-01-2016 1:55 PM saab93f has seen this message
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 3:14 PM saab93f has replied
 Message 54 by edge, posted 08-02-2016 9:43 AM saab93f has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8547
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(3)
Message 38 of 242 (788519)
08-01-2016 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by saab93f
08-01-2016 1:36 PM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
saab writes:

Can't you see how silly your magical arguments are? When someone presents you problems that reality present, you wave everything off with magic (this time it's magical olive tree that can withstand soggy soil).

I occasionally try to talk to my wife about this sort of stuff. She's one of the many vague and pleasant Christians that has a generalised fuzzy belief in something, possibly. This general belief presents itself as being nice to people if you possibly can.

She has absolutely no time for worrying about whether it all stacks up to modern analysis. She knows it's all bunkum but likes the general message.

When asked a difficult question about something that makes no actual sense she just shrugs and says 'well, its a miracle, god can do anything.' And you know she's just laughing at you. Which just about sums it up. Why pretend it has to make any sense? Just go with the flow.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by saab93f, posted 08-01-2016 1:36 PM saab93f has seen this message

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 711 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 39 of 242 (788521)
08-01-2016 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by saab93f
08-01-2016 1:36 PM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
There is nothing magical about the effect a completely different and more advantageous environment would have had on a tree. You don't believe in the pre-Flood world but that doesn't allow you to call it magical. If it actually exists it would be as natural and real as the Bahamas. And there was nothing magical about my postulating that the soil wasn't soggy either. The only thing strange here is your weird inability to distinguish between realistic hypotheses and your own disbelief.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by saab93f, posted 08-01-2016 1:36 PM saab93f has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by saab93f, posted 08-01-2016 3:26 PM Faith has replied
 Message 41 by jar, posted 08-01-2016 3:48 PM Faith has replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 662 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 40 of 242 (788523)
08-01-2016 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
08-01-2016 3:14 PM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
And there was nothing magical about my postulating that the soil wasn't soggy either.

Pardon me? After a year underwater the soil would not be soggy? Another magical attribute - water that doesn't get things wet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 3:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 5:18 PM saab93f has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 41 of 242 (788524)
08-01-2016 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
08-01-2016 3:14 PM


On some pre-flood environment
Faith writes:

There is nothing magical about the effect a completely different and more advantageous environment would have had on a tree.

When all of the evidence shows conclusively that the environment at the period that would have been before the alleged flood was very much like it is after the flood and there is only one year between the environment pre and post flood your claim certainly sounds like magic. In fact what other explanation could there be. In addition, nothing in either of the Biblical Flood stories says anything about any pre or post flood environments.

You are free to make stuff up but unless you have some support for your assertions they are not at all persuasive.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 3:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 5:21 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 711 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 42 of 242 (788529)
08-01-2016 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by saab93f
08-01-2016 3:26 PM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
I don't think you read what I said about the wet soil. If you did you didn't think about it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by saab93f, posted 08-01-2016 3:26 PM saab93f has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by saab93f, posted 08-02-2016 2:23 AM Faith has taken no action

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 711 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 43 of 242 (788530)
08-01-2016 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jar
08-01-2016 3:48 PM


Re: On some pre-flood environment
Haven't heard anything from you yet except stuff you've made up, on top of your utterly wacko insistence on the idea of two floods in the Bible, which as far as I know is absolutely unique to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 08-01-2016 3:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-01-2016 5:41 PM Faith has taken no action
 Message 45 by jar, posted 08-01-2016 5:49 PM Faith has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 44 of 242 (788532)
08-01-2016 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
08-01-2016 5:21 PM


Re: On some pre-flood environment
your utterly wacko insistence on the idea of two floods in the Bible, which as far as I know is absolutely unique to you.

It's not unique to jar:

quote:
Many exegetes believe that the Genesis narrative is a composite of two different stories that were combined into the final canonical form of Genesis 6–9. Some scholars call these the Jahwist (JHWH) source and the Priestly (Elohim) source. Some notable difficulties between the two sources include: two different reasons are given for why the flood happens, Noah is given two different instructions about what animals and birds to take on board the ark, there are two different time frames given for how long the flood lasts, there are different explanations of the "nature of the flood waters", different circumstances by which Noah and the animals leave the ark, and two different "divine names" (elohim and Yahweh) are used.
From Wiki

Here's a webpage that splits out the J and P sources and puts them side by side:

http://www.davnet.org/kevin/articles/flood2.html


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 5:21 PM Faith has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 45 of 242 (788534)
08-01-2016 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
08-01-2016 5:21 PM


Re: On some pre-flood environment
Faith writes:

Haven't heard anything from you yet except stuff you've made up, on top of your utterly wacko insistence on the idea of two floods in the Bible, which as far as I know is absolutely unique to you.

What I have said is that there are two mutually exclusive flood stories in the Bible, not that there were two floods.

And let's look and see if I posted anything that I made up.

First, please point to stuff I made up in Message 1.

Then point to the stuff I made up in Message 3.

After you answer those two issues I will gladly walk through every one of my posts in this thread to allow you to point to anything I made up.

Faith, this software even has a way readers can pull up each and all of my posts in this thread and I doubt you can point to anything I made up.

The issue is that it is very easy to describe what the Biblical Flood would have been like and to then check to see if what must be seen if it actually happened is found in reality.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 5:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 08-02-2016 9:12 AM jar has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022