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Author Topic:   Describing what the Biblical Flood would be like.
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 106 of 242 (788691)
08-03-2016 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Faith
08-03-2016 3:07 PM


It's ALL a big fat piece of guess work, only I have a witness account on my side and he has nothing but his own fallen mind.
Nonsense. You have no witness accounts for a super genome. You made that up. You have no witness accounts for the idea that there is missing landscape evidence. You made that up. You do have a Biblical testimony that an olive leaf is available, but as for how that happened you don't have any witness as to how that occurred. You made your explanation up.
In one post you tell us that there is no explanation for the sorting of fossils. In another you tell us you have a working model for the flood. One of those statements is obviously false. I think Jar has properly guessed that neither of those things is true. In one post you tell us that there is no way to obtain information regarding the unwitnessed past. Yet you devote an entire thread to telling us how you can use that same evidence to rule out a scientific explanation. Quite obviously one at least one, and almost certainly both of those statements are wrong. But not when you tell it.
Perhaps you've simply blundered into the wrong forum?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 3:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:50 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 12:50 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 242 (788694)
08-03-2016 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by ICANT
08-03-2016 4:24 PM


I would think the rising of the waters from the oceans would be like what is seen two time a day at the Bay of Fundy. The water rises and falls 48 feet every 12 hours. But what would happen if the tide did not go our and the water just kept rising? Forty days later the water would be 3,840 feet deep. Just a thought.
Do you understand how tides work? Is this really a plausible thought?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by ICANT, posted 08-03-2016 4:24 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by ICANT, posted 08-04-2016 1:24 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 810 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 108 of 242 (788703)
08-03-2016 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by ICANT
08-03-2016 4:24 PM


I'm not a seventh day adventist and I have no idea what E G White wrote about the Flood, absolutely none, so if I'm saying anything like what she said it didn't come from her and in fact most of it came out of my own head and not from anybody that I know of.
As for salty water, rain is not salty. In fact I just happened to see a film based on a true story about four guys stranded in an overturned trimaran on the ocean. After they ran out of water they came up with a system of diverting rainwater along the hull of the boat into a reservoir. Rainwater is obviously drinkable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by ICANT, posted 08-03-2016 4:24 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by ICANT, posted 08-04-2016 2:18 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 810 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 109 of 242 (788705)
08-03-2016 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by NoNukes
08-03-2016 6:09 PM


It's ALL a big fat piece of guess work, only I have a witness account on my side and he has nothing but his own fallen mind.
Nonsense. You have no witness accounts for a super genome. You made that up. You have no witness accounts for the idea that there is missing landscape evidence. You made that up
You are extremely talented at turning a reasonable statement into garbage. First I said "it's all a big fat piece of guess work" before I said that I have a witness account on my side. You go on to accuse me of having no witness account for the very things that are the GUESS WORK I was first talking about. You have a terrible time, just terrible, understanding a statement according to its own emphases. I don't know how you do it but you are amazingly consistent at it.
No point in trying to answer your whole garbage heap. But I do NOT postulate a "super genome" -- increased heterozygosity is cdompletely within the normal range of things. PAY ATTENTION. THINK FOR A CHANGE. Stop garbling everything I say. As for your incomprehensible statement "the idea that there is missing landscape evidence" is just that, incomprehensible, probably the usual garbling of something I said that I can't even recognize from your phrase. Go ahead and deny it all. You never stop to think that maybe I'm right about this mangling of communication you do even though I've said it many times by now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2016 6:09 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by NosyNed, posted 08-04-2016 1:27 AM Faith has replied
 Message 115 by jar, posted 08-04-2016 9:40 AM Faith has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 318 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 110 of 242 (788710)
08-04-2016 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by NoNukes
08-03-2016 6:21 PM


Hi NoNukes
NoNukes writes:
I would think the rising of the waters from the oceans would be like what is seen two time a day at the Bay of Fundy. The water rises and falls 48 feet every 12 hours. But what would happen if the tide did not go our and the water just kept rising? Forty days later the water would be 3,840 feet deep. Just a thought.
Do you understand how tides work? Is this really a plausible thought?
I think they are caused by the moon's gravitational effects on the water and the earth. At least that is what I was told.
But what would that have to do with the water from the fountains of the deep that could open up and supply water where the tide would not recede.
So why would it not be plausible?
My point was that the water at the Bay of Fundy does not do a lot of damage even though it has a high tide every 12 hours and 25 minutes.
There would be no force to tear up the earth as required by young earth creationist
According to AIG there was enough mass on earth at the time of the flood to create the coal that is found. They forget about the trillions of tons of mass required to produce the 1 trillion barrels of oil we have used and the 3 trillion barrels still left, plus all that can not be retrieved. It takes 98 tons of mass to make 1 gallon of gas. A barrel of oil will produce 19 gallons of gas and 12 gallons of diesel. Then you have to get that mass under 5 miles of rock and earth under 22,000 psi pressure.
I can't even get an answer out of the scientific community for the mechanism of the oil being where it is at.
The Biblical flood just did not produce a mechanism to produce all the oil, natural gas, and coal in the earth and the formations seen in the rocks.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2016 6:21 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2016 6:44 AM ICANT has replied

  
NosyNed
Member (Idle past 13 days)
Posts: 8971
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 111 of 242 (788711)
08-04-2016 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:50 PM


super genome
increased heterozygosity is cdompletely within the normal range of things
No, it is not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 10:23 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 318 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 112 of 242 (788712)
08-04-2016 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:32 PM


Hi Faith
Faith writes:
I'm not a seventh day adventist and I have no idea what E G White wrote about the Flood,
You don't have to be a seventh day Adventist to have the same crazy ideas Ellen G White had.
There are many evangelicals and others that believe in a young earth.
But do you want me to believe you sat around and come up with the garbage you have posted on this site about the flood all by yourself?
I know one thing you did not get it out of the Bible because your flood and E G Whites's flood is not the one recorded in Genesis.
Faith writes:
As for salty water, rain is not salty.
Go back and read my post again. I said the water that comes down in the form of rain is water that was evaporated from the oceans as well as lakes and rivers. But the salt would be separated from the vapor.
Now to what a Biblical flood would look like.
There is enough water in the atmosphere to cover the earth as we know it today with 1 inch of water. When that water comes down in the form of rain more evaporated water has to be drawn up into the atmosphere to return to the earth in the form of rain. So you are only going to get 1 inch of water out of the atmosphere. The rest had to come from the springs (fountains) of the deep.
There is no way the catastrophic flood required by YEC could have taken place and be the flood described in the Bible.
Do I believe in a flood that covered all the land mass as recorded in Genesis? Yes I do.
Since the Bible has the land mass in one place at the time (Genesis 1:9) of the flood there is no elevations of the earth given so we don't know how flat it was nor do we know the height above sea level. The land mass was not divided until the days of Peleg (Genesis 10:25) which was over a hundred years after the flood.
Everybody here keeps saying the land mass was not covered in water in the past. But scientist say it was covered in water and some even say it was covered in ice at one time. Scientist also tell us that the earth has lost 25% of its water. The Earth has lost a quarter of its water
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Coyote, posted 08-04-2016 9:52 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 10:18 AM ICANT has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 242 (788713)
08-04-2016 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Faith
08-01-2016 9:21 AM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
How can a person call himself a Christian who denies the plain words of scripture?
What's required for salvation, Faith? Haven't we discussed this point a dozen times? You don't have to be endorse YEC to be a Christian. Beyond that, this is a discussion where evidence based discussion is the order of the day.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 08-01-2016 9:21 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 10:06 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 242 (788714)
08-04-2016 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by ICANT
08-04-2016 1:24 AM


I think they are caused by the moon's gravitational effects on the water and the earth. At least that is what I was told.
The sun and the moon's gravitational effect on the oceans as a whole accompanied by the rotation of the earth.
So why would it not be plausible?
ICANT, what you said was this:
ICANT writes:
But what would happen if the tide did not go our and the water just kept rising?
It's not feasible for the tide to come in and not go back out. Further the extreme rise of the tides at the Bay of Fundy is caused by the region's topology. The fountains of the deep are like the tides in what way? How would the effect get expanded to the rest of the world, where the tides are of a substantially smaller scale. What is the point of your comparison with the Bay of Fundy.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by ICANT, posted 08-04-2016 1:24 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by ICANT, posted 08-04-2016 5:31 PM NoNukes has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 115 of 242 (788722)
08-04-2016 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:50 PM


There is no witness account of the flood.
Faith writes:
First I said "it's all a big fat piece of guess work" before I said that I have a witness account on my side. You go on to accuse me of having no witness account for the very things that are the GUESS WORK I was first talking about.
There is no witness account of the flood.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:50 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 116 of 242 (788725)
08-04-2016 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by ICANT
08-04-2016 2:18 AM


The land mass was not divided until the days of Peleg (Genesis 10:25) which was over a hundred years after the flood.
So you are saying humans were living some 175 million years ago?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by ICANT, posted 08-04-2016 2:18 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 810 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 117 of 242 (788729)
08-04-2016 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by NoNukes
08-04-2016 6:37 AM


Re: Yet one more thing we can say
I didn't say you had to endorse YEC, I wondered how a Christian can simply do away with actual Biblical text.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2016 6:37 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by jar, posted 08-04-2016 11:00 AM Faith has replied
 Message 149 by NoNukes, posted 08-10-2016 6:12 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 810 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 118 of 242 (788732)
08-04-2016 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by ICANT
08-04-2016 2:18 AM


Didn't mean to impute salty rain to you, should have been clear I was adding my own information about that.
To my mind the strata with their fossil contents are THE unimpeachable evidence of the Flood, for which no other explanation makes sense, certainly not millions of years of different time periods with completely different life forms.
All the details are attempts to imagine the hows of the matter.
Scripture DOES mention MOUNTAINS, though their height is a matter of speculation, and the splitting of the earth in the time of Peleg as a physical event is one interpretation held by some commentators but not others; some interpret it as a cultural splitting or some such. It's still a possibility in my mind but I think earlier timing right after the Flood makes more sense.
You don't know and I don't know so you can drop your tone of certainty.
I could not care less what Ellen G. White said about it.
Yes the scientists come up with six sea transgressions to explain how obviously WET the strata had to have been.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by ICANT, posted 08-04-2016 2:18 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 810 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 119 of 242 (788734)
08-04-2016 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by NosyNed
08-04-2016 1:27 AM


Re: super genome
There is nothing that would challenge the structure of the genome in greater heterozygosity. Postulating a super genome with something like polyploidy would be an example of an abnormal solution to the problem, something that would change the structure of the genome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by NosyNed, posted 08-04-2016 1:27 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3492
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 120 of 242 (788737)
08-04-2016 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by jar
08-03-2016 12:06 PM


Re: On life underwater
the soil needed to grow Olive Trees and to grow grapes was not washed away or contaminated which certainly contradicts a flood capable of washing away lithified material.
And even capable washing away whole coral reefs and plunking them down, intact, so it appears that they were just buried where they grew.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 08-03-2016 12:06 PM jar has not replied

  
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