Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 301 of 1257 (788702)
08-03-2016 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by herebedragons
08-03-2016 3:30 PM


Re: Tracks in the strata
At what stage is the sediment being stripped form the land? Where is all this sediment coming from?
The ocean. Waltheer's Law. But during the rain I assume the land would have been stripped, or somewhat stripped. I don't see why this is a problem. Where would it come from on the OE theory? Out of the sky?
This still creates the problem of stripping off all the land and depositing miles deep of sediment in 150 days! Your scenario doesn't even allow for an entire year of deposition. It would make more sense to have all the sediments being stripped off in the first 150 days and then deposited in the remaining time of the flood, but then that creates other problems right?
I don't know, forty days of extremely heavy rain plus the fountains of the deep sending sea level over the land seems like plenty of scouring to me. But Walther's Law deposits sediments from the ocean itself. There's plenty of stuff to get deposited in a Flood that covered the earth.
I've been trying to get a grip on what the Flood passage actually says. It may be a while before I have a settled idea about it.
Actually , since Moose called jar off topic I've realized this whole discussion of specifics about the Flood is off topic. You don't even get what I mean by the landscapes I say are fiction. I think it's time to get back to that.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by herebedragons, posted 08-03-2016 3:30 PM herebedragons has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-03-2016 9:49 PM Faith has replied
 Message 305 by PaulK, posted 08-04-2016 12:49 AM Faith has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 302 of 1257 (788704)
08-03-2016 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:22 PM


Walther's Law deposits sediments from the ocean itself ???!!!
But Walther's Law deposits sediments from the ocean itself.
The sands and muds are detritus which have an on-land source. The carbonates and coccolith foram (silica) ooze are biochemical precipitates out of the seawater, although even then I think the ultimate source of the carbonate and silica is largely from an on-land source.
Walther's Law is the relationship between the types of sediments of lateral deposits (shoreline to deep sea) and the types of sediments found in a column at a given location. It does not say that the sediments are derived from the ocean basin.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 315 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:52 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 303 of 1257 (788706)
08-03-2016 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:01 PM


Re: Tracks in the strata
Good question. Perhaps it implies that where they were buried had nothing to do with where they lived, but suggests why there would be tracks of frantically running dinosaurs where they ended up buried.
You have yet to show us why the dinosaur were 'frantically running'. You have tides coming in and tides going out why would they be running if the don't run in modern times.
They probably floated to their burial place on the rising water. abe: Picture a lot of dinosaur corpses floating in the water along with a lot of dinosaur eggs in nests.
Sorry, but I'm still laughing.
Walk out from where? This is the middle of the Flood, there isn't any place that is livable, it's all encroaching water, or water that's already drowned a bunch of them.
Well, if they left tracks in an unlivable place at a certain time then there must have been someplace that was livable at that time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:48 AM edge has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 304 of 1257 (788707)
08-03-2016 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:01 PM


Re: Tracks in the strata
They probably floated to their burial place on the rising water. abe: Picture a lot of dinosaur corpses floating in the water along with a lot of dinosaur eggs in nests.
That global flood was awesomely gentle...
Carved the grand canyon in less than a year you say?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:09 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(3)
Message 305 of 1257 (788709)
08-04-2016 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:22 PM


Re: Tracks in the strata
quote:
I don't know, forty days of extremely heavy rain plus the fountains of the deep sending sea level over the land seems like plenty of scouring to me
Which would wipe out all the land animals, right ? Genesis 7:17-23 says so.
So you are telling us that these tracks were made, and survived during that period ? While the land was being scoured ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:05 AM PaulK has replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


(3)
Message 306 of 1257 (788715)
08-04-2016 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by Faith
08-03-2016 7:07 PM


Re: Tracks in the strata
If there is one consistency within the group that hold that the 'literal' reading of the bible is the one true way and also attempt to dabble in 'scientific' explanations, it's a lack of understanding or respect or application of the "If / Then" conditional statement.
They say things and then when the downstream implications of their statements are pointed out to them they cry some version of "That's not my point" or "Strawman". The results of a conditional statement are not a strawman whether or not you thought of or like the outcome.
Someone here (Percy?) did a piece on this very thing once using the claim of a car traveling some long distance in one hour and the driver then denying the obvious results of the "IF you drove that far in that amount of time, THEN you broke the law" conclusion. "I NEVER SAID I BROKE THE LAW - YOU'RE PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH - YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, NOT ME" was the cry in response.
I know that some minds have a more natural affinity for logic than others, but I still believe that for those of us in the US at least, in our education system we are failing to get the basics across in an adequate manner.
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 7:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 311 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:13 AM ThinAirDesigns has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 307 of 1257 (788716)
08-04-2016 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by PaulK
08-04-2016 12:49 AM


Re: Tracks in the strata
I don't know yet if I accept the interpretation of forty days to accomplish the whole Flood; I just discovered that's how some people read it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by PaulK, posted 08-04-2016 12:49 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by jar, posted 08-04-2016 9:12 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 310 by PaulK, posted 08-04-2016 9:13 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 308 of 1257 (788717)
08-04-2016 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by NoNukes
08-03-2016 10:39 PM


Re: Tracks in the strata
That global flood was awesomely gentle...
It lifted the ark up rather gently from the sound of it. No reason in some phases it couldn't have been gentle.
Carved the grand canyon in less than a year you say?
No, I did not say, and of COURSE you have to get that wrong too no matter how many millions of times I've said it.
The RECEDING WATERS OF THE FLOOD, after the Flood had reached its height and was starting to abate, after all the strata were stacked to their fullest height, THEN the water cut through the upper strata, broke it up, washed it away, eroded the Grand Staircase and the Kaibab Plateau, and cut the canyon, probably picking up velocity as things opened up.
Pay attention, think.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2016 10:39 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by edge, posted 08-04-2016 10:55 AM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 309 of 1257 (788718)
08-04-2016 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by Faith
08-04-2016 9:05 AM


Re: Tracks in the strata
Actually, it's how one of the stories puts it. Remember there is not one flood myth but two flood myths with additional commentary added by some unknown redactor or redactors.
But what the Bible says or does not say is totally irrelevant to this thread just as the flood is totally irrelevant to this thread.
Your problem is that all of the evidence simply shows conclusively that what is seen is a series of landscapes, each made up of many different types of rock, each filled with a succession of different types of living organisms and landscapes.
You need to produce a model that can compete with the current model of change over time and so far neither you or anyone else has been able to present anything worth more than a chuckle.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:05 AM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 310 of 1257 (788719)
08-04-2016 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by Faith
08-04-2016 9:05 AM


Re: Tracks in the strata
quote:
I don't know yet if I accept the interpretation of forty days to accomplish the whole Flood; I just discovered that's how some people
The point is not about "accomplishing the whole Flood", the point is that the animals are all killed in the 40 days. Which, given your description, sounds pretty much inevitable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:05 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:19 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 311 of 1257 (788720)
08-04-2016 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by ThinAirDesigns
08-04-2016 8:08 AM


Re: Tracks in the strata
Dinosaurs "walking out on an unlivable place" isn't a straw man? It's a SILLY straw man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 08-04-2016 8:08 AM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by edge, posted 08-04-2016 10:54 AM Faith has replied
 Message 331 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 08-04-2016 11:54 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 312 of 1257 (788721)
08-04-2016 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by PaulK
08-04-2016 9:13 AM


The timing of the phases of the Flood
As I said, I just learned about this view of it, and I may not accept it.
ABE: The more I read the Biblical account the more clear it seems that the timing of the events isn't relevant to the writer, except for the one point that it lasted about a year, and that is even subject to some variation. (It's this fact that jar interprets as more than one account. You might even be able to get three or four out of it if you followed jar's way of cutting things).
The point in the text at which an event in the Flood is reported is likely not to be much of a clue to when it actually occurred during the Flood year itself.
The way it is written it is almost impossible to tell whether the Flood reached its height after forty days or continued to increase afterward, or exactly when the rain and the fountains were completely stopped, or whether the Flood had abated or was just starting to abate at the end of 150 days, and different commentators take different positions on these questions. This is an impression I'm getting from reading through it a number of times but it needs careful study. It may be in the end that it's simply impossible to be sure about when things happened.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by PaulK, posted 08-04-2016 9:13 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by PaulK, posted 08-04-2016 9:45 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 313 of 1257 (788723)
08-04-2016 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 312 by Faith
08-04-2016 9:19 AM


Re: The timing of the phases of the Flood
Firstly, it's not jar's idea, it is perfectly standard Bible scholarship.
And I'd say it is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the confused nature of the story.
What is your explanation for that ? God got confused and didn't understand what happened ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:19 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:59 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 314 of 1257 (788724)
08-04-2016 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by edge
08-03-2016 10:35 PM


Re: Tracks in the strata
Well, if they left tracks in an unlivable place at a certain time then there must have been someplace that was livable at that time.
Why, if the whole world was being inundated would they have had any livable space to "come out of?" If the Flood was still rising there might have been some remaining unflooded land they were running toward, but that's the only possiblity that occurs to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by edge, posted 08-03-2016 10:35 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by edge, posted 08-04-2016 10:58 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 315 of 1257 (788726)
08-04-2016 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 302 by Minnemooseus
08-03-2016 9:49 PM


Re: Walther's Law deposits sediments from the ocean itself ???!!!
OK, but as I recall beach sands now are known to have a source out to sea somewhere, though their original source was the land; and it seems pretty unlikely to me that the limestones and coccoliths could have a source on the land. Mud, silt, yes, and I'll give you sand too, but the others?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-03-2016 9:49 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024