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Author Topic:   The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


(1)
Message 466 of 1257 (789114)
08-10-2016 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 465 by jar
08-10-2016 6:13 PM


Re: Just the same as today.
But isn't Faith here arguing that what science says is impossible? That is, not supporting the bible but rather saying it is right if science's idea can't work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by jar, posted 08-10-2016 6:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 468 by jar, posted 08-10-2016 8:03 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 469 by NoNukes, posted 08-10-2016 9:27 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 471 by PaulK, posted 08-11-2016 1:05 AM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 472 by jar, posted 08-11-2016 8:37 AM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 474 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 9:31 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 467 of 1257 (789115)
08-10-2016 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 463 by NosyNed
08-10-2016 4:50 PM


Re: Just the same as today.
So no one understands what you imagine was happening that makes it all so impossible.
I thought the "no landscapes in the past argument" was the most bizarre new wrinkle in her claims, but now she is giving the craziest description of geological science. In her last dozen or more posts she describes geology and biology in a way that is totally daft and that bares no resemblance to how any geologists, biologists, evolutionary biologists, or paleontologists actually describe the planet or geological and biological processes.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 463 by NosyNed, posted 08-10-2016 4:50 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 468 of 1257 (789116)
08-10-2016 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by NosyNed
08-10-2016 7:50 PM


Re: Just the same as today.
I think that Faith uses argument du jour, anything that might suit her purposes at the moment. It is proselytizing and not discussion or debate.
Her interpretation of what the Bible says is TRUTH and if you disagree with her TRUTH you are wrong.
You cannot believe what reality says, what science says, what logic says, what the evidence says if it disagrees with her TRUTH.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by NosyNed, posted 08-10-2016 7:50 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 469 of 1257 (789117)
08-10-2016 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by NosyNed
08-10-2016 7:50 PM


Re: Just the same as today.
But isn't Faith here arguing that what science says is impossible? That is, not supporting the bible but rather saying it is right if science's idea can't work.
That was the original intent of the thread, but Faith gave up on making those kinds of arguments quite awhile back. Now her participation has been reduced to just asserting that science is wrong rather than impossible and repeatedly not understanding attempts to explain how animals live during the sediment accumulation process. I think every person here has made an attempt to explain that. Your own post on the topic is at least as clear as everyone else's. Let's see what Faith makes of it.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : Grammar

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by NosyNed, posted 08-10-2016 7:50 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by Coyote, posted 08-10-2016 10:42 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 470 of 1257 (789119)
08-10-2016 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by NoNukes
08-10-2016 9:27 PM


Re: Just the same as today.
the sediment accumulation process...?
That's easy to understand.
Folks dust their houses and sweep their floors, don't they?
When you clean your house most of the extra sediment ends up outside.
That process of sediment accumulation, over long periods of time, can create quite a thick deposit if not disturbed.
But you don't see massive die-offs with the steadily accumulating sediment in your back yard, do you?
This is the exact process that forms the geological layers, but they had a considerable head start. The new layers forming from your kitchen floor dust will take a while longer...

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 471 of 1257 (789121)
08-11-2016 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 466 by NosyNed
08-10-2016 7:50 PM


Re: Just the same as today.
At this point I think it's more a refusal to admit that the silly things she made up could be wrong. It's not as if Faith is shy about disagreeing with the Bible when she doesn't like what it says. It's easier for her to say that God got it wrong than it is to admit her own errors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by NosyNed, posted 08-10-2016 7:50 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 476 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 9:34 AM PaulK has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 472 of 1257 (789132)
08-11-2016 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 466 by NosyNed
08-10-2016 7:50 PM


misusing logic
NoseNed writes:
That is, not supporting the bible but rather saying it is right if science's idea can't work.
I think this is another important point that I did not address and that is the idea that if the conventional theory is wrong it makes her theory right.
That is wrong on so many levels but the idea that if The Theory of Evolution could be disproved then Special Creation or Intelligent Design would be the only other option and if conventional geology could be shown to be wrong then the Flood and Young Earth would be the only other option is quite common and pervasive.
It's the old "If you are wrong then I must be right" position and it is promoted by almost all of the so called "Creation Science" organizations.
None of them really try to provide support for their position but rather only try to discredit the conventional theories.
Unfortunately the reality is that if the Theory of Evolution were proven to be wrong it would simply have to be modified to account for the new data and evidence. In fact that is exactly what has happened in geology and physics and math and chemistry and archeology and paleontology and engineering and medicine and every single line of inquiry, endeavor or technology.
Showing the conventional theory is wrong does not add support for any other theories.
The only way Faith or anyone else can get the Biblical Flood or Young Earth of Special Creation accepted is to actually provide the support, the evidence, the model, mechanism, method, process, procedure or thingamabob that makes Special Creation, Young Earth or Intelligent Design worth consideration.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by NosyNed, posted 08-10-2016 7:50 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 473 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 9:27 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 473 of 1257 (789136)
08-11-2016 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 472 by jar
08-11-2016 8:37 AM


Re: misusing logic -- yes you are, jar
That's a lot of blather about how proving the current theory wrong would not prove the Flood, but you really haven't made a case for that.
If the whole Geo timescale idea that's based on the rock strata turns out to be false/impossible, I see no other alternative than the Flood to explain the known facts.
And you haven't offered one. "It would have to be modified" begs the question. HOW would it have to be modified? WHAT would you change to account for the utter destruction of the idea that you can get from a landscape to a rock to another landscape?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by jar, posted 08-11-2016 8:37 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by jar, posted 08-11-2016 9:33 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 474 of 1257 (789137)
08-11-2016 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 466 by NosyNed
08-10-2016 7:50 PM


Re: Just the same as today.
But isn't Faith here arguing that what science says is impossible? That is, not supporting the bible but rather saying it is right if science's idea can't work.
Thank you. That is indeed what I'm arguing, and despite the usual attempts to discredit anything I say by hook or by crook, I'm still arguing it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by NosyNed, posted 08-10-2016 7:50 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 475 of 1257 (789138)
08-11-2016 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 473 by Faith
08-11-2016 9:27 AM


Re: misusing logic -- yes you are, jar
Faith writes:
If the whole Geo timescale idea that's based on the rock strata turns out to be false/impossible, I see no other alternative than the Flood to explain the known facts.
And you haven't offered one. "It would have to be modified" begs the question. HOW would it have to be modified? WHAT would you change to account for the utter destruction of the idea that you can get from a landscape to a rock to another landscape?
That you see no other alternative than the Flood is very likely true. But it is also silly, nonsense and wrong. The Biblical Floods have been totally refuted for hundreds of years and so cannot be an alternative unless you or someone else can provide support for them.
But all of the evidence has been that as new information becomes available science modifies theories to explain the new evidence and does not fall back on old myths that have been proven false and wrong.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 473 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 9:27 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 477 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 9:36 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 476 of 1257 (789139)
08-11-2016 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 471 by PaulK
08-11-2016 1:05 AM


Re: Just the same as today.
It's not as if Faith is shy about disagreeing with the Bible when she doesn't like what it says. It's easier for her to say that God got it wrong than it is to admit her own errors.
This is slander, PK, and I'm asking you now for evidence of ANY instance where I EVER argued with the Bible. It will of course turn out to be only that I disagree with YOUR view of the Bible, not the Bible itself. Go ahead, fire away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by PaulK, posted 08-11-2016 1:05 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by PaulK, posted 08-11-2016 12:13 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 477 of 1257 (789140)
08-11-2016 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 475 by jar
08-11-2016 9:33 AM


Re: misusing logic -- yes you are, jar
Bla bla de bla, jar. More assertion, not a shred of evidence. The supposed refutations are bogus inventions of anti-Christian "scholars" which of course you accept but I don't. You have not said one thing to support your assertion that if the scenario I'm dismantling here is wrong the Flood would not be the logical explanation in its place.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 475 by jar, posted 08-11-2016 9:33 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 478 by jar, posted 08-11-2016 9:42 AM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 478 of 1257 (789141)
08-11-2016 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 477 by Faith
08-11-2016 9:36 AM


Re: misusing logic -- yes you are, jar
Faith writes:
You have not said one thing to support your assertion that if the scenario I'm dismantling here is wrong the Flood would not be the logical explanation in its place.
Once again, reality simply shows Faith is wrong.
Neither you nor anyone else has even been able to provide a model or mechanism or process or procedure or thingamabob for a flood to sort the existing biological and geological samples in the order in which they are found in reality.
The Biblical flood stories are only myth and fantasy.
The topic is "The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock" and you have still never supported even that assertion and can offer only dogma.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 477 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 9:36 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 480 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 9:50 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 479 of 1257 (789142)
08-11-2016 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Coyote
08-10-2016 10:42 PM


Re: Just the same as today.
Folks dust their houses and sweep their floors, don't they?
When you clean your house most of the extra sediment ends up outside.
That process of sediment accumulation, over long periods of time, can create quite a thick deposit if not disturbed.
But you don't see massive die-offs with the steadily accumulating sediment in your back yard, do you?
This is the exact process that forms the geological layers, but they had a considerable head start. The new layers forming from your kitchen floor dust will take a while longer...
Please explain how accumulated dust gets sorted into a particular sediment such as sand or clay or calcareous ooze, which characterize most of the rocks in the strata.
Then please explain how it forms a nice flat layer that becomes a rock in the strata that extends for large distances
You can account for the burying of a village this way but not for the formation of the strata.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 480 of 1257 (789144)
08-11-2016 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 478 by jar
08-11-2016 9:42 AM


Re: misusing logic -- yes you are, jar
Changing the subject is of course an effective deception, but you are the one who said that if the Geo theory as it is being discussed here is in fact discredited, the Flood would not be the logical alternative. I suggest you take it back because you neither understand the argument I'm making and how it would destroy the current theory, nor what the possible alternatives would be that you claim would exist.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by jar, posted 08-11-2016 9:42 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 481 by NoNukes, posted 08-11-2016 10:07 AM Faith has replied
 Message 483 by jar, posted 08-11-2016 10:17 AM Faith has replied

  
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