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Author Topic:   Why did we stop inventing gods?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 483 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 203 (789360)
08-13-2016 11:48 AM


Why did we stop inventing gods?

The ancients were quite good at inventing new gods. The bible shows that the Jews invented many gods before deciding that god could not be defined and settled for “I am“, as the greatest expression of god. “I am” as spoken as a man.

A History Of God
Karen Armstrong

Jews, in their oral tradition, gave man the last word in what god and his policies were to be. They accepted that the man they chose as head Rabbi of their Divine council had the power to overrule their written tradition. Man’s words, not an imaginary god, had the final say on policy. Man was supreme and not one of the imaginary gods.

Christianity then changed much of the morals and policies of their newly invented god, Yahweh, and also transferred the power of god to a man. Jesus. Jesus was now placed at the power seat at the right hand of his newly invented god and placed Yahweh in the right hemisphere of the brain, as shown in the art of the day as depicted by Michelangelo in his creation painting in the Vatican.

Islam then invented Allah, and so far, rightfully named him the last god to be invented. Foolish but true to date.

I see that search for a god as a search for the best laws and rules to live life by. After all, we cannot follow an imaginary god and can only follow the laws and rules that those imaginary gods has spoken, recognizing of course, that only a person can speak those laws and rules and that it was really a wise person who was uttering those words.

Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges. This is not to say that those demiurges did not have some good policies but only says that a better god could and should be invented. Gnostic Christianity lost the god wars and was decimated the moment Christianity gained political power which they used to end freedom of religion.

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

Why do you think we stopped inventing gods and settled for demonstrably immoral ones?

Regards
DL

P.S. Gods are the opium of the people.

Huey Lewis And The News - I Want A New Drug

Edited by AdminPhat, : turned bare links into proper URL references


Replies to this message:
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AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1909
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 2 of 203 (789362)
08-13-2016 11:35 PM


Universalist Gnostic Christian church
1) When Did We Stop Inventing Gods? New England Patriots Forum I can't see anyone replying to you here.

2) When Did We Stop Inventing Gods? David Icke Forum I had to look up who this even was. You are an all-inclusive troll,GIA!
He looks like a secular humanist New Age Guru that fits right up your alley, GIA> Why not stay at that Forum. Jesus rules here--as long as I am a religious moderator, at any rate.
(footnote: I responded to GIAs comments at other forums...but on this same topic. Please excuse any confusion)
I did catch one of your comments that struck my interest, however.

GIA writes:

Indeed there are many gods and idols popping up.

Yet idols are just that. Frauds. Hoaxes. There is only One God.

GIA writes:

I do not agree that one voice cannot change the beliefs of many.

Lets say that you were that one voice. What do you propose to change the beliefs of many from? What specifically do they believe that threatens you?
GIA writes:

What Einstein did for science and our scientific paradigm, one voice can do the same in changing our religious paradigm as well.

Again...change it to what?
GIA writes:

All that is required is for the people who are changed to get together and form a new and improved church.

Do you really expect people to suddenly agree on anything? If the church denominations that split up after Luther got knocked down and split the almighty Roman Church which had earlier split from the Eastern Orthodox church could never agree, what makes you think that your people who are changed going to agree on anything?

GIA writes:

My hope is that the all inclusive Universalist Gnostic Christian church will be that voice. I cannot see any other theology of philosophy that can do so.

OK you have your topic. I will not promote any other topics from you until this one gets at least 300 replies. Lets go with Comparative Religions.

Thread copied here from the Why did we stop inventing gods? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

Edited by AdminPhat, : clarification

Edited by AdminPhat, : update

Edited by AdminPhat, : explanation of topic oddities


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16093
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 8.6


(1)
Message 3 of 203 (789364)
08-14-2016 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-13-2016 11:48 AM


Well, we don't really need to invent new gods, we can just repurpose old ones.

This is especially the case if you're going to roll with monotheism. When asked "But which god are you talking about?" you say "God, there is only one". So starting from Judaism the Christians, Muslims, and Mormons have been able to reinvent God while maintaining that they're still talking about the same deity.

And anyone wanting to resurrect polytheism might as well use some of the old gods, they have so many pantheons to choose from with the cachet of antiquity, and like the One True God they can be tweaked to fit modern needs: just as Yahweh no longer approves of slavery and polytheism, so Odin is no longer so keen on rape and pillage.

We have, in short, enough gods to be getting on with. Why would we need a new one?


This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 4 of 203 (789365)
08-14-2016 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-13-2016 11:48 AM


Why did we stop inventing gods?

We din't stop Adi Da Samraj died in 2008 but was considered to be an incarnation of god and the only way to enlightenment is to worship him.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12238
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 5 of 203 (789366)
08-14-2016 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Adequate
08-14-2016 2:08 AM


New and Improved
I hear that Apple has come out with a new one... an i-god.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

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Phat
Member
Posts: 12238
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 6 of 203 (789367)
08-14-2016 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-13-2016 11:48 AM


Who Is The Greatest?
GIA writes:

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

I dunno about the other two, but whats at all immoral about Jesus? He is, after all, more worthy of the title I AM than you are.
GIA writes:

Unitarians might be in the running but they need to drop the supernatural to entice those who are not idol worshipers of the supernatural gods.

Is it any less idolatrous to worship ourselves?

GIA writes:

Yes a god exists but we have yet to elect the right man for the job like they did in ancient days.

And we have found a better man than Jesus because.....? Back then "they" chose Barabbas.

GIA writes:

The supernatural gods took over and man has forgotten his place in the scheme of reality.

The god of ants is an ant.
The god of a lion is a lion.
The god of men must be a man.

He is Risen. What more do you want?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12238
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 7 of 203 (789368)
08-14-2016 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by frako
08-14-2016 2:58 AM


Bubba Da Con
I had to look Adi Da Samraj up.

Seems he had some interesting alias.

Wiki writes:

Adi Da Samraj, born Franklin Albert Jones (November 3, 1939 – November 27, 2008[1]), was an American spiritual teacher, writer and artist.[2] He was the founder of a new religious movement known as Adidam. He changed his name numerous times throughout his life; these names included Bubba Free John, Da Free John, Da Love-Ananda, Da Kalki, Da Avadhoota and Da Avabhasa, among others. From 1991 until his death, he was known as Adi Da Love-Ananda Samraj or Adi Da.[3]


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

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 Message 4 by frako, posted 08-14-2016 2:58 AM frako has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6733
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 8 of 203 (789369)
08-14-2016 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-13-2016 11:48 AM


Well the best time to invent your god is before large civilisations develop. That way you can almost have one per family. Maybe village. What you need is isolation and ignorance if you want lots.

If you can create an empire you can declare as many or as few of the adopted gods as you like. You can even make yourself into one if you wield enough power.

Education, democracy, science and communication have done away with the need and possibility of too many new gods arriving and developing, although of course new cults spring up and subside all the time.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 800 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


(1)
Message 9 of 203 (789370)
08-14-2016 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
08-13-2016 11:35 PM


Re: Universalist Gnostic Christian church
AdminPhat, why do you reply to GIA's content 1) as an admin, and 2) when this content is on other fora? This is most confusing for this thread.
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Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 800 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


(1)
Message 10 of 203 (789371)
08-14-2016 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-13-2016 11:48 AM


Growing pains
GIA writes:

Why did we stop inventing gods?

Why does a child stop believing in Santa? Because it is growing up.

As we all know, growing up isn't without its problems. (Kirk Cameron, anyone?)

On a positive note, it is good to realize that gods are man's invention, and not vice versa.


"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 12238
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 11 of 203 (789374)
08-14-2016 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Parasomnium
08-14-2016 4:34 AM


Re: Growing pains
On a positive note, it is good to realize that gods are man's invention, and not vice versa.
This is far from conclusive. God created the world you live in, the air you breathe--indeed the very universe that contains us..long before you were even able to make Him up.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12238
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 12 of 203 (789375)
08-14-2016 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Adequate
08-14-2016 2:08 AM


Will The Real God Please Stand Up
Dr.A writes:

When asked "But which god are you talking about?" you say "God, there is only one". So starting from Judaism the Christians, Muslims, and Mormons have been able to reinvent God while maintaining that they're still talking about the same deity.

Jews,Christians, and Muslims all worship One God. Some say it is the same God...the God Who Is. There are arguments over whether Jesus is a dead failed Messiah, a living God or a living prophet of God. Personally I see Jesus as a greater prophet than Muhammad because Muhammad was focused on worldly shrewdness while Jesus was beyond that. As for Mormons? They are clearly polytheistic.

Edited by Phat, : spelling


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-14-2016 2:08 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 203 (789378)
08-14-2016 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
08-14-2016 6:21 AM


Re: Will The Real God Please Stand Up
Phat writes:

Personally I see Jesus as a greater prophet than Muhammad because Muhammad was focuses on worldly shrewdness while jesus was beyond that.

Have you ever read the Bible Phat?

When Jesus is supposedly quoted in the Bible stories he is almost always talking about worldly things, about behavior, about duties, about what a person should do for others.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 483 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 14 of 203 (789379)
08-14-2016 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
08-13-2016 11:35 PM


Re: Universalist Gnostic Christian church
AdminPhat

"There is only One God."

To each of us, yes, but not a supernatural one. If you have written the laws of god in your heart as Jesus promoted, then that god is you.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

If you think the Christian god is the one god, then you should recognize the immoral nature of his immoral tenets. We cannot prove his existence but I can prove him to be quite immoral so pick his moral tenets and lets have at it.

"Lets say that you were that one voice. What do you propose to change the beliefs of many from?"

The whole world has been harmed by belief in the supernatural gods mostly because the mainstream religions grew themselves by war and all those religions are really good at is creating homophobic and misogynous people.

"Again...change it to what?"

The main change I would like to see is a return to what the more intelligent ancients though of god. This scholar explains it well.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

"Do you really expect people to suddenly agree on anything?"

NO. That is why I try to entice people to debate.

Regards
DL


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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 483 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


(1)
Message 15 of 203 (789381)
08-14-2016 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
08-13-2016 11:35 PM


Re: Universalist Gnostic Christian church
Dr Adequate

I am not the one who said that there is only one god but as with humans, we should not expect any one person to know about everything to the highest degree.

If I am sick, I want a doctor. If I am to invest, I want an economist. If my car is acting up, I want a mechanic.

The ancients had various gods for various issues and to expect one god or person to know everything in depth is ridiculous.

Regards
DL


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