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Author Topic:   Why did we stop inventing gods?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 5 of 203 (789366)
08-14-2016 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Adequate
08-14-2016 2:08 AM


New and Improved
I hear that Apple has come out with a new one... an i-god.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-14-2016 2:08 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 6 of 203 (789367)
08-14-2016 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-13-2016 11:48 AM


Who Is The Greatest?
GIA writes:
Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?
I dunno about the other two, but whats at all immoral about Jesus? He is, after all, more worthy of the title I AM than you are.
GIA writes:
Unitarians might be in the running but they need to drop the supernatural to entice those who are not idol worshipers of the supernatural gods.
Is it any less idolatrous to worship ourselves?
GIA writes:
Yes a god exists but we have yet to elect the right man for the job like they did in ancient days.
And we have found a better man than Jesus because.....? Back then "they" chose Barabbas.
GIA writes:
The supernatural gods took over and man has forgotten his place in the scheme of reality.
The god of ants is an ant.
The god of a lion is a lion.
The god of men must be a man.
He is Risen. What more do you want?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 08-13-2016 11:48 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 9:55 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 7 of 203 (789368)
08-14-2016 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by frako
08-14-2016 2:58 AM


Bubba Da Con
I had to look Adi Da Samraj up.
Seems he had some interesting alias.
Wiki writes:
Adi Da Samraj, born Franklin Albert Jones (November 3, 1939 — November 27, 2008[1]), was an American spiritual teacher, writer and artist.[2] He was the founder of a new religious movement known as Adidam. He changed his name numerous times throughout his life; these names included Bubba Free John, Da Free John, Da Love-Ananda, Da Kalki, Da Avadhoota and Da Avabhasa, among others. From 1991 until his death, he was known as Adi Da Love-Ananda Samraj or Adi Da.[3]

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by frako, posted 08-14-2016 2:58 AM frako has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 11 of 203 (789374)
08-14-2016 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Parasomnium
08-14-2016 4:34 AM


Re: Growing pains
On a positive note, it is good to realize that gods are man's invention, and not vice versa.
This is far from conclusive. God created the world you live in, the air you breathe--indeed the very universe that contains us..long before you were even able to make Him up.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Parasomnium, posted 08-14-2016 4:34 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 10:09 AM Phat has replied
 Message 34 by Parasomnium, posted 08-14-2016 3:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 12 of 203 (789375)
08-14-2016 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Adequate
08-14-2016 2:08 AM


Will The Real God Please Stand Up
Dr.A writes:
When asked "But which god are you talking about?" you say "God, there is only one". So starting from Judaism the Christians, Muslims, and Mormons have been able to reinvent God while maintaining that they're still talking about the same deity.
Jews,Christians, and Muslims all worship One God. Some say it is the same God...the God Who Is. There are arguments over whether Jesus is a dead failed Messiah, a living God or a living prophet of God. Personally I see Jesus as a greater prophet than Muhammad because Muhammad was focused on worldly shrewdness while Jesus was beyond that. As for Mormons? They are clearly polytheistic.
Edited by Phat, : spelling

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-14-2016 2:08 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 08-14-2016 8:19 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 17 of 203 (789383)
08-14-2016 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
08-14-2016 8:19 AM


Re: Will The Real God Please Stand Up
jar writes:
Have you ever read the Bible Phat?
Have you ever believed in your heart that Jesus is Lord? That He is Gods representative to humanity? Do you understand your Messiah...beyond your logical opinion that He is a failure until He actually completes the contract by returning? Do you thank Him for showing you the way to live and be responsible or do you take credit for all of that yourself?
When Jesus is supposedly quoted in the Bible stories he is almost always talking about worldly things, about behavior, about duties, about what a person should do for others.
I agree with you=, except to say that when Jesus talked of worldly things--like money, for instance--He always used it as a metaphor for His primary concern, which was teaching us about our behavior and our duties.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 08-14-2016 8:19 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 10:17 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 19 of 203 (789385)
08-14-2016 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Greatest I am
08-14-2016 9:37 AM


The Inventor or The Invention?
GIA writes:
If one worships any idea, it is to enshrine that idea and no longer question it's validity and in an evolving world, to not let ideas evolve is to stifle our evolution.
I would argue that the very idea that we are the only gods we will ever have is itself idolatrous. The only reason you have any wisdom at all---indeed are able to breathe---is because of God. Yes, the supernatural One.
He is the Creator. The Inventor. We are the creation. The invention.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 9:37 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 2:44 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 61 of 203 (789450)
08-15-2016 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Greatest I am
08-14-2016 10:09 AM


Re: Growing pains
About formatting: I never change anyone's words when I correct your sloppy formatting. Please learn how to format and stop changing peoples words around.
Regards
Phat
Edited by Phat, : clarification

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 10:09 AM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Asgara, posted 08-15-2016 12:22 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 64 of 203 (789458)
08-15-2016 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Asgara
08-15-2016 12:22 AM


Re: Growing pains
Thank you for correcting me, Ms.Asgara. These pesky people who want to be God sometimes annoy me and I come across acting like God myself!
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Asgara, posted 08-15-2016 12:22 AM Asgara has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 65 of 203 (789466)
08-15-2016 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Greatest I am
08-14-2016 9:26 AM


Re: Universalist Gnostic Christian church
GIA writes:
AdminPhat
"There is only One God."
To each of us, yes, but not a supernatural one. If you have written the laws of god in your heart as Jesus promoted, then that god is you.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
If you think the Christian god is the one god, then you should recognize the immoral nature of his immoral tenets. We cannot prove his existence but I can prove him to be quite immoral so pick his moral tenets and lets have at it.
"Lets say that you were that one voice. What do you propose to change the beliefs of many from?"
The whole world has been harmed by belief in the supernatural gods mostly because the mainstream religions grew themselves by war and all those religions are really good at is creating homophobic and misogynous people.
"Again...change it to what?"
The main change I would like to see is a return to what the more intelligent ancients though of god. This scholar explains it well.
What is God? - Big Think
"Do you really expect people to suddenly agree on anything?"
NO. That is why I try to entice people to debate.
Regards
DL
This post is a perfect example of why your formatting is unreadable and confuses people who read this topic. First off, as AdminPhat I did not say what you quoted in that context. As a Christian who believes that there is One God, I will most assuredly say that there is and that you are not He.
If you want to continue being promoted at EvC Forum, you would be wise to adopt proper formatting techniques so that the readers of your posts are not confused.
I will reformat your post as I understand it, leaving no words out.
quote:
AdminPhat writes:
"There is only One God."
To each of us, yes, but not a supernatural one. If you have written the laws of god in your heart as Jesus promoted, then that god is you.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
If you think the Christian god is the one god, then you should recognize the immoral nature of his immoral tenets. We cannot prove his existence but I can prove him to be quite immoral so pick his moral tenets and lets have at it.
Lets say that you were that one voice. What do you propose to change the beliefs of many from?
The whole world has been harmed by belief in the supernatural gods mostly because the mainstream religions grew themselves by war and all those religions are really good at is creating homophobic and misogynous people.
Again...change it to what?
The main change I would like to see is a return to what the more intelligent ancients though of god. This scholar explains it well.
What Is God?
Do you really expect people to suddenly agree on anything?
NO. That is why I try to entice people to debate.
Regards
DL
If you need to see how the formatting was done, press the peek button. It helps to clarify posts in their proper context and to leave other readers content unchanged. Otherwise viewers may get an incorrect idea of the thrust of the debate.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 9:26 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 12:54 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 69 of 203 (789477)
08-15-2016 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by jar
08-15-2016 10:50 AM


Re: Growing pains
jar writes:
And we know from Exodus that God hardens hearts even when the individual wants a soft heart.
In todays modern era, do you believe that God can or does harden hearts?
Why would God do something that we didnt want Him to do? Hmmmm good question.
*ponder ponder*

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by jar, posted 08-15-2016 10:50 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 08-15-2016 12:48 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 71 by jar, posted 08-15-2016 12:49 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 72 of 203 (789497)
08-15-2016 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by jar
08-15-2016 12:49 PM


Re: Growing pains
jar writes:
I know that the Bible says God did that and that it depends on which God we create.
If the Bible is simply made up of Gods that we create, how does this fact strengthen or weaken your personal belief in GOD?(You know...the One who created and imagined us long before we were even capable of soiling our diapers...much less making Him up?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 08-15-2016 12:49 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 08-15-2016 6:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 86 of 203 (789537)
08-16-2016 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Faith
08-16-2016 11:44 AM


Re: testable versus untestable.
I agree with you. I was changed forever when I publicly confessed that Jesus is Lord...critics may say it was an emotional catharsis but I have personally seen people undergo similar transformation. Just 3 weeks ago, a young man whom I know who constantly struggled with alcoholism and who would no more set foot in a church than i would in a whorehouse decided of his own volition to go with me there...and after public confession the alcohol addiction was (and is) gone. He seems to have a different personality and character now...similar to the Saul/Paul conversion. Granted we still have our old natures...they are just suppressed...but the new nature seemingly generates from nowhere.
Now granted Ringo will argue that he usually sees better behavior from unbelievers than from believers...and I wont argue with him as I too have seen it.
The difference is that unbelievers try their hardest to be good under their own merits and will, whereas believers are transformed by the renewing of their minds...something an unbeliever won't experience.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Faith, posted 08-16-2016 11:44 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by ringo, posted 08-16-2016 12:19 PM Phat has replied
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 08-16-2016 12:57 PM Phat has replied
 Message 95 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:07 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 88 of 203 (789539)
08-16-2016 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by ringo
08-16-2016 12:19 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
I have not gambled in 45 days and plan on being #Sober4Life. I can testify that God initiated my recovery much the same as He did when testing Job.
Job was a a righteous man who always prayed for his family, was fair and equitable in business and employed many people...treating them fairly. God allowed satan to test Job and the result was that Job eventually knew God rather than simply knowing about God.
My life is similar in some ways. I worked at safeway for 12 years and had not so much as a written discipline on any work related incident. I was making close to $500.00 a week, and had only one major addiction/sin in my life that tarnished my record.Gambling. About June 15th, God prompted me to start reading Job again. I had no idea why, but I was studying and reading every day through the latter half of June.
Around the last week in June, an incident happened at work--out of the blue. I will share a bit of it with you.
quote:
. I had just finished checking out a "rush" of people and was taking black baskets to the front lobby when a customer said to me "sir! A lady just went out the door without paying for her groceries! I know because she went around me and was not in line." I asked her to point the lady out...she pointed to a lady pushing a cart down the side of the front heading north.
I reacted without thinking and ran to stop the lady. I startled her because when I stepped in front of her she went "ahhhh"! I dont recall precisely how the conversation ensued, but I did barely recognize her as a customer I had seen before...so i asked for a receipt...saw one and grabbed it...saw the name "Bella" in the place where the checkers name is...and so began to take the cart away from her and into the store...(admittedly it was dark and I couldnt read the name...it was Bella "something" I assumed Bella the checker who was at that time not working. At no time did I touch her or behave rudely apart from my assertiveness at recovering the groceries. (...)On Saturday, July 16th, I was given a letter of termination.
Many other employees have confronted suspected shoplifters without termination. Yet not only was I terminated but was denied unemployment benefits. As we talk now, I am surviving on $800.00 in savings and no job. So I believe that God allowed this to happen to me. It has made me stronger in many ways, though I am broke as a joke.
The only "renewing of their minds" that believers experience is the belief that they don't need to make an effort any more, that God has given them a get-out-of-addiction-free card. That can make them more likely to relapse, not less.
In my case it has made me stronger.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by ringo, posted 08-16-2016 12:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by ringo, posted 08-16-2016 12:58 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 90 of 203 (789542)
08-16-2016 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Greatest I am
08-16-2016 12:47 PM


Judging The Judge
the only evidence you have is what has been written by others. You cannot claim to know God so how can you judge Gods supposed actions without hearing from the defendant Himself?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 12:47 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:12 PM Phat has replied

  
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