Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9073 total)
64 online now:
Tangle (1 member, 63 visitors)
Newest Member: MidwestPaul
Post Volume: Total: 893,320 Year: 4,432/6,534 Month: 646/900 Week: 170/182 Day: 3/47 Hour: 1/2

Announcements: Security Update Released


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Faith vs Science
Phat
Member
Posts: 15959
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 77 of 186 (788616)
08-02-2016 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Stile
08-02-2016 1:14 PM


Re: Topic Remix
The fact that every time we look for evidence of an intelligence that is ultimately responsible for our existence we do not find any.

Being unable to find evidence of an-intelligence-that-is-ultimately-responsible-for-the-fact-that-we-exist is itself evidence that an intelligence is not ultimately responsible for the fact that we exist.

Did it ever occur to you that this intelligence does not want us to find any evidence?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Stile, posted 08-02-2016 1:14 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-02-2016 4:01 PM Phat has taken no action
 Message 86 by Tangle, posted 08-02-2016 7:11 PM Phat has seen this message
 Message 91 by Stile, posted 08-03-2016 8:29 AM Phat has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15959
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 84 of 186 (788630)
08-02-2016 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by LamarkNewAge
08-02-2016 6:39 PM


Faith & Evidence.
Lamark, you are using human wisdom to try and explain scripture. This simply will not work. It leads to long posts that basically teach us nothing. Quit trying to convince yourself and others something which you dont even understand how to believe.

Drop that zoroastrianism stuff...its worthless.

If you believe in your heart that Jesus was raised from the Dead and confess it with your mouth you will be saved. Its just that simple.

As for any critics, I have seen people transformed by simply doing just that.|

My evidence is based on the transformation in others which I saw.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-02-2016 6:39 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-02-2016 6:53 PM Phat has taken no action
 Message 92 by ringo, posted 08-03-2016 12:36 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15959
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 93 of 186 (788684)
08-03-2016 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by ringo
08-03-2016 12:36 PM


Re: Faith & Evidence.
So, for the umpteenth time, why is it that so many people claim to be "transformed" but only others who claim to be transformed can see the transformation?
You bring up a good point. While it is true that many Biblical Christians claim that once saved always saved...and that only members of the club are special...the fact is that if someone-anyone-is transformed than everyone can see the change and the difference---not just Christians.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by ringo, posted 08-03-2016 12:36 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Tangle, posted 08-03-2016 5:08 PM Phat has seen this message
 Message 99 by ringo, posted 08-04-2016 11:56 AM Phat has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15959
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 114 of 186 (788907)
08-07-2016 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Tangle
08-07-2016 5:19 AM


Re: Topic Remix
Of course scripture says that without Faith it is impossible to please God. Secular critics assert that without evidence it is impossible to prove God. They then go on to cite "evidence" from scholars of various gods,deities,spaghetti monsters and other vain imaginations from the human animal as their summation that God does not exist. I have subjective data in my mind and heart that God not only exists but desires a relationship with each of us. Critics would counter that I believe only what I was culturally taught and that apart from that, I have nothing. Problem being that they demand evidence before they will allow themselves faith.
Hebrews 11:1 writes:

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Thats NIV...so lets dig a bit deeper.
quote:
Heb 11:1-6 Now faith is the( substanceNT:5287
hupostasis (hoop-os'-tas-is); from a compound of NT:5259 and NT:2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively) - confidence, confident, person...) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
KJV

  • Why would God care if we believed that he exists or not?
  • What does Strongs say about substance and evidence.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 113 by Tangle, posted 08-07-2016 5:19 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 115 by Tangle, posted 08-07-2016 10:40 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 116 of 186 (788910)
    08-07-2016 10:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 115 by Tangle
    08-07-2016 10:40 AM


    Re: Topic Remix
    You are a stubborn one.
    It's of no consequence today apart from its extant delusional effect on the superstitious. It's just one of many mythological beliefs.
    I honestly don't think so.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 115 by Tangle, posted 08-07-2016 10:40 AM Tangle has taken no action

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 135 of 186 (789021)
    08-09-2016 2:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 133 by Tangle
    08-09-2016 1:37 PM


    Re: Faith in common.
    The problem is not science in general---it makes sense, is verifiable, and passes most critical thinking tests. The problem is when science is used to explain origins. Science is NOT the origen, nor is Stephen Hawking anywhere near brilliant enough to come up with a hypothesis that explains origin. If he were that smart he would be able to walk...indeed fly.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 133 by Tangle, posted 08-09-2016 1:37 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 136 by Tangle, posted 08-09-2016 3:01 PM Phat has replied
     Message 142 by ringo, posted 08-10-2016 11:58 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 139 of 186 (789035)
    08-09-2016 4:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 136 by Tangle
    08-09-2016 3:01 PM


    Re: Faith in common.
    Tangle writes:

    Science WILL create life from chemicals at some point, possibly in the next decade. That will push 'origin' arguments back to questions about who or what made chemicals instead of life. Religion is finding its areas of movement very restricted, it's being pushed further and further into a corner. Pretty soon now all that will be left as a religious explanation for creation will be theism and eventually some physicist with the brain the size of a god will crack that one too.

    Psalms 49:3 writes:

    My mouth will speak words of wisdom; the meditation of my heart will give you understanding.

    Were I a betting man, I would take a heart over a brain any day of the week.
    I also realize that scriptures don't impress you--bear with me as I also do with your presumptions.

    Psalms 111:10 writes:

    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.


    Proverbs 1:7 writes:

    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

    Indeed, fools think they are wise. Often those who are in fact wise are also humble. They know their source.

    Proverbs 4:6 writes:

    Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you.

    1 Corinthians 1:18 writes:

    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

    Notice Stephen Hawking...

    As brilliant as he is, he questions the universe yet does not question God. Any good scientist wouldn't rule the possibility of God out now would they?


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 136 by Tangle, posted 08-09-2016 3:01 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 140 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-09-2016 6:07 PM Phat has taken no action
     Message 141 by Tangle, posted 08-09-2016 6:21 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 143 of 186 (789229)
    08-11-2016 8:36 PM
    Reply to: Message 142 by ringo
    08-10-2016 11:58 AM


    Re: Faith in common.
    God Is Not Dead

    The Goat Herders were not so vain as to rely on their own imagination nor intelligence. By Faith they knew God.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 142 by ringo, posted 08-10-2016 11:58 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 144 by GDR, posted 08-11-2016 9:03 PM Phat has seen this message
     Message 146 by ringo, posted 08-12-2016 11:39 AM Phat has seen this message

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 147 of 186 (789376)
    08-14-2016 6:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 141 by Tangle
    08-09-2016 6:21 PM


    Re: Faith in common.
    Start with this. And yes...any good scientist reviews all of the evidence. Response to Stephen Hawking
    You quote chunks of biblical bollox at me? In a science thread? Do you really expect me to even read it?
    Are you really so narrow minded as to ignore any challenges to your world view? You are not dead yet, Tangle.
    I really don't care who questions or doesn't question god. It's only facts that matter.
    So examine all of the evidence before concluding your worldview. Not everyone who is a believer is an idiot. Some are far wiser than you or I. And yes, this is a science forum. Deal with it. We are studying human psychology.
    Here's a clue, part of the process of submitting a scientific paper is to include its limitations - say what hasn't been tested that might be an alternate answer to your conclusion or not produce as generalisable result.
    Have you read all of them?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 141 by Tangle, posted 08-09-2016 6:21 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 149 by Tangle, posted 08-14-2016 5:19 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 150 of 186 (789629)
    08-17-2016 9:07 AM
    Reply to: Message 149 by Tangle
    08-14-2016 5:19 PM


    The Word Of The Day:Imagine
    Tangle,referring to Stephen Hawking writes:

    We'll have to wait - possibly forever - as some of his and his colleague's imaginings may be impossible to confirm. At the level of big physics these things approach belief.

    Note what you just said. Their imaginings.... Lets do a word study on the word imagine, shall we?
    Tangle writes:

    Oh give over Phat. There's absolutely nothing new to be found in the bible. It's been exactly the same for 2,000 years. I studied it for years and believed in it the same way you do now. It was my world view - been there, done that.

    Since you did study the book for years, you will appreciate this word study then. Please correct me if I seem too clever...since the purpose of this study is to show the intelligence of the authors rather than myself.

    For this study, we will use the KJV since it lines up with Strongs Concordance.
    Imagine

    quote:
    TO THINK, DEVISE
    chashab OT:2803, "to think, devise, purpose, esteem, count, imagine, impute." This word appears 123 times in the Old Testament, and it implies any mental process involved in planning or conceiving.

    Chashab can be translated as "devise" in association with the sense of "to think and reckon." A gihed person of God "devises" excellent works in gold and other choice objects Ex 35:35. The word may deal with evil, as when Haman "devised" an evil plot against the Jewish people Est 8:3. David issued his prayer against those who "devise" evil toward him as a servant of the Lord Ps 35:4, and the scoundrel "devises" perverse things in Prov 16:30. Other verses indicating an immoral intent behind the action of "devising" are Jer 18:11,18; Ezek 11:2.
    The word may mean "think." Some "thought" to do away with David by sending him against the Philistines 1 Sam 18:25; Judah "thought" Tamar to be a harlot Gen 38:15; and Eli "thought" Hannah was drunk 1 Sam 1:13. God repented of the evil concerning the judgment he "thought" to bring upon Israel Jer 18:8. Those who fear the Lord may also "think" upon His name Mal 3:16.

    Chashab may be rendered "to purpose" or "esteem." God asked Job if he could tame the Leviathan, who "...esteemeth him as straw, and brass as rotten wood" Job 41:27. A classic usage of "esteem" appears in Isa 53:3-4: "He [the Messiah] is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs.... Yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted." Some uses of "to purpose" have a malevolent intent. David's enemies have "purpose" to overthrow him Ps 140:4. God repented of the evil He "purposed" to do concerning Israel Jer 26:3, and perhaps the people will repent when they hear the evil God has "purposed" against the nation Jer 36:3. On the other hand, God "purposes" evil against the land of the Chaldeans in His judgment after using them for the purification of His people, Israel Jer 50:45

    Translated as "count," the word is used in a number of ways. It had a commercial connotation, as when land was being redeemed and the price was established, based on the value of crops until the next year of Jubilee: "Then let him count the years of the sale thereof, and restore the overplus..." Lev 25:27. The same idea concerns the provisions for the Levites when Israel offered their gifts to the Lord Num 18:30. "Count" may imply "to be thought or reckoned." Bildad declared to Job, "Wherefore are we counted as beasts, and reputed vile in your sight?" Job 18:3. Those who seek to live for the Lord are "counted" as sheep for the slaughter Ps 44:22. The foolish person, when he holds his peace, is "counted" as wise Prov 17:28. A theological emphasis exists in God's reward of Abraham, when the patriarch believed God and His word: "And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness" Gen 15:6.

    Most uses of chashab translated as "imagine" bear an evil connotation. Job chided his friends: "Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate..." Job 6:26; David's enemies "imagined" a mischievous device Ps 21:11; and Nahum complained of those who "imagine" evil against the Lord Nah 1:11.

    Other unique translations of chashab occur. In order to approach God, Asaph had to remember and "consider" the days of old Ps 77:5. God had a controversy with Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, because he "conceived" a plan against Him and His people Jer 49:30. The prophet Amos cites people who "invent" instruments of music and enjoy it Amos 6:5. Huram of Tyre sent a man to help Solomon in the building of the temple, who knew how to "find out" all the works of art-- i. e., he could work in various metals and fabrics to design a work of beauty 2 Chron 2:14. Joseph had to remind his brethren that he did not seek to do them harm because they had sold him into slavery, since God "meant" it for the good of the preservation of Jacob's sons Gen 50:20.


    Quite simply I am attempting to show that when men imagined something, it was usually their own vain imagination. There were times, however, where their imagination was of God...chiefly because it was His creative Spirit...His imagination rather than the limited vain imagination of fallible humans.

    Edited by Phat, : clarification


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 149 by Tangle, posted 08-14-2016 5:19 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 151 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2016 10:08 AM Phat has replied
     Message 155 by ringo, posted 08-18-2016 12:55 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 152 of 186 (789693)
    08-18-2016 1:19 AM
    Reply to: Message 151 by Tangle
    08-17-2016 10:08 AM


    Re: The Word Of The Day:Imagine
    This is just preaching - there were no such times.
    You have no evidence of this either.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 151 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2016 10:08 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 153 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2016 2:16 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 156 of 186 (789735)
    08-18-2016 3:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 155 by ringo
    08-18-2016 12:55 PM


    Re: The Word Of The Day:Imagine
    You may be right. I hope not, however.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 155 by ringo, posted 08-18-2016 12:55 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 159 by ringo, posted 08-19-2016 11:46 AM Phat has seen this message

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 157 of 186 (789736)
    08-18-2016 3:57 PM
    Reply to: Message 153 by Tangle
    08-18-2016 2:16 AM


    At The End Of The Day...
    There were times, however, where (human) imagination was of God...chiefly because it was His creative Spirit...His imagination working through His Prophets and chosen people..rather than the limited vain imagination of fallible humans in general.

    - there were no such times......You know how this works Phat, it's your claim that the world worked in a different way than it does now some indeterminate time ago; I'm calling you on it, it's your job to demonstrate it.

    All I can say is that perhaps in our lifetime we may see evidence that convinces us one way or the other. You may become more convinced that there were and are such times, or i may finally be persuaded that you were right all along. Time will tell. In the meantime, enjoy life and try your best.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 153 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2016 2:16 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 158 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2016 4:20 PM Phat has seen this message
     Message 160 by edge, posted 09-19-2016 7:25 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 161 of 186 (791732)
    09-20-2016 2:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 160 by edge
    09-19-2016 7:25 PM


    Re: At The End Of The Day...
    Phat writes:

    here were times, however, where (human) imagination was of God...chiefly because it was His creative Spirit...His imagination working through His Prophets and chosen people..rather than the limited vain imagination of fallible humans in general.


    edge writes:

    That's what they say here in Colorado, too. But it isn't a god.

    Yoyu mean our imagination isnt a god? Scientifically you are absolutely correct. I may perceive and believe that God speaks through humans..but no way can I prove it. I do have a scrip that gives me internal verification,however.
    2 Peter 1:20-21 writes:


    Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

    I realize that this is meaningless to a critical thinker who denies belief in favor of evidence...so in conclusion, I will say that scientifically I cannot write a thesis on how to know God...at least one that differed from what scripture says....I would quote scripture only because i believe that one can not improve the original wording. Apart from all that, in order for believers to demonstrate how they know God, one would have to follow them around with a camera and a mic...without them knowing...to witness the behavior of the individual.

    I would say that you would be witnessing and documenting God through the behavior of a human. You may argue that my evidence was insufficient to differentiate a believer from a non believer. So here we are.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 160 by edge, posted 09-19-2016 7:25 PM edge has taken no action

    Replies to this message:
     Message 162 by Taq, posted 09-20-2016 2:32 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15959
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 163 of 186 (810089)
    05-23-2017 11:54 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
    04-08-2016 9:00 AM


    In Light Of Recent Discussions
    The original topic here was:
    quote:
    In this topic, I want to again bring up some basic questions regarding the difference between faith and science.
  • What constitutes valid evidence? (In regards to both Faith & Belief and Science Forums) Is valid evidence the same for both science and faith?

  • Must Faith have evidence?

    We know that science requires evidence.

  • Faith is often personal. Should people of faith be allowed to get angry when their beliefs are challenged? How should creationists defend their faith and still represent science?
  • The main reason I brought this topic back was to address Faiths rant over at Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.

    For the YEC, I ask if there should be a different definition as to what science is apart from critical thinking and the scientific method.

    If as claimed the Bible is used as a source, should it simply be allowed to be accepted as a valid source or does it require some sort of standard (apart from Jesus Christ Himself)


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Phat, posted 04-08-2016 9:00 AM Phat has taken no action

    Replies to this message:
     Message 166 by jar, posted 05-23-2017 12:04 PM Phat has seen this message
     Message 168 by Taq, posted 05-23-2017 12:39 PM Phat has seen this message
     Message 172 by NoNukes, posted 05-24-2017 2:30 PM Phat has taken no action

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.1
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022