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Author Topic:   Why did we stop inventing gods?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 91 of 203 (789543)
08-16-2016 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
08-15-2016 10:14 AM


Re: Universalist Gnostic Christian church
Phat
You asked more than once as to what I would change in terms of what people believe when I gave you the answer in the link I gave you.
Perhaps you were too busy worrying about my formatting.
Let me give it again.
What is God? - Big Think
Regards
DL
P.S. Peek just gives me the message I posted.
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 08-15-2016 10:14 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:05 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 92 of 203 (789544)
08-16-2016 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
08-16-2016 12:12 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat writes:
......but the new nature seemingly generates from nowhere.
It doesn't generate from nowhere Phat, they're both examples of the same addictive behaviour.
quote:
The difference is that unbelievers try their hardest to be good under their own merits and will, whereas believers are transformed by the renewing of their minds...something an unbeliever won't experience.
Steady boy, unbelievers do not 'try their hardest to be good' they exhibit a wide range of behaviours and I doubt they struggle with any of them - they're just dispositions. I certainly don't have to try 'to be good' - it's simply a matter of not doing harm which I find very difficult to do, so I don't do it.
As for not experiencing a 'renewal of my mind' - absolutely no thanks, I don't want anyone dicking with my head except me.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 12:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 5:56 PM Tangle has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 93 of 203 (789545)
08-16-2016 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
08-16-2016 12:44 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat writes:
I have not gambled in 45 days and plan on being #Sober4Life.
Good for you. But you're making my point. Your public confession was a lot longer ago than that and your addiction didn't just go away.
Phat writes:
I can testify that God initiated my recovery....
I can testify that Bigfoot is sitting on my couch. How much is that testimony worth?
Phat writes:
... the same as He did when testing Job.
So you attribute your gambling problem to God testing you? And being fired as God testing you? What a Bastard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 12:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:09 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 94 of 203 (789546)
08-16-2016 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Greatest I am
08-16-2016 12:54 PM


Re: Universalist Gnostic Christian church
GIA writes:
Phat
You asked more than once as to what I would change in terms of what people believe when I gave you the answer in the link I gave you.
Perhaps you were too busy worrying about my formatting.
Let me give it again.
What is God? - Big Think
Regards
DL
You seem to respect Karen Armstrong. She discusses Logos vs Mythos and also articulates the need for morality in global spirituality...much as you do. Her bio is brief:
quote:
Born in England in 1944, Karen Armstrong is a TED Prize-winning scholar of comparative religion best known for her bestselling 1993 volume "A History of God." A Catholic nun from 1962 through 1969, she left the order to become a student of English literature at Oxford amidst a struggle with then-undiagnosed epilepsy, a period of her life discussed in her 2004 autobiography "The Spiral Staircase." In 2008 she called for a council of world religious leaders to draw up a "Charter for Compassion" based on the moral principles embodied in the Golden Rule. In November 2009, she unveiled the Charter in Washington, DC and online.
I have not studied whether she believes in God or Jesus as something we humans are in communion with yet Who are of a higher archetype than we are or whether we all are the only gods we will ever know---as you believe. Still...you have shown us a link but have not articulated why you believe that God is so darn mean. I do not see this in my relationship with Him. Perhaps you want us all to stop believing that God is apart from us in nature and that we all can be gods.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 12:54 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:23 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 95 of 203 (789547)
08-16-2016 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
08-16-2016 12:12 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat
"I was changed forever when I publicly confessed that Jesus is Lord..."
Having a Lord or master indicates that you think of yourself as a serf or slave.
Why would you slave yourself to a genocidal god who always seems to kill when he could just as easily cure those he thinks ill?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 12:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:13 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 96 of 203 (789548)
08-16-2016 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by ringo
08-16-2016 12:58 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
ringo writes:
I can testify that Bigfoot is sitting on my couch. How much is that testimony worth?
Tell us more details! A testimony is only worth as much as the credibility of the author. People rarely gain credibility without being known.
So you attribute your gambling problem to God testing you? And being fired as God testing you? What a Bastard.
I do not blame god for my gambling problem--it was my addiction and my responsibility. I was simply too weak to confront it because i have long preferred fantasy over reality. Getting fired was reality. I don't blame God for that, either.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by ringo, posted 08-16-2016 12:58 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by ringo, posted 08-16-2016 1:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 97 of 203 (789549)
08-16-2016 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
08-16-2016 12:51 PM


Re: Judging The Judge
Phat
"the only evidence you have is what has been written by others. You cannot claim to know God so how can you judge Gods supposed actions without hearing from the defendant Himself?"
Further the only knowledge you have of god is what has been written by others. You cannot claim to know God so how can you judge Gods supposed actions without hearing from the defendant Himself?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 12:51 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:18 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 98 of 203 (789550)
08-16-2016 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Greatest I am
08-16-2016 1:07 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Lets first correct this sloppy formatting, shall we?
GIA writes:
Phat writes:
I was changed forever when I publicly confessed that Jesus is Lord...
Having a Lord or master indicates that you think of yourself as a serf or slave.
Why would you slave yourself to a genocidal god who always seems to kill when he could just as easily cure those he thinks ill?
Regards
DL
Accepting Jesus as Lord means that you dont consider yourself more highly than you ought, for one thing. Humans are not gods. Humans will never solve their global,ethical, or personal problems through their own strength alone. Moreover, God considers us as sons--not slaves.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:07 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:26 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 99 of 203 (789551)
08-16-2016 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Phat
08-16-2016 1:09 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat writes:
A testimony is only worth as much as the credibility of the author.
So how credible is your testimony when you've been kicking your habit (presumably with God's help) for years?
Phat writes:
I do not blame god for my gambling problem--it was my addiction and my responsibility.
You're the one who brought up Job. He wasn't responsible for causing his problems but he was responsible for dealing with them. God didn't help him with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:09 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:27 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 100 of 203 (789552)
08-16-2016 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Greatest I am
08-16-2016 1:12 PM


Re: Judging The Judge
Again, GIA we have to correct this formatting as it is unclear what is being said by whom. Correct me if I am wrong. Essentially you are saying:
Phat,to GIA writes:
the only evidence you have is what has been written by others. You cannot claim to know God so how can you judge Gods supposed actions without hearing from the defendant Himself?
GIA writes:
Further the only knowledge you have of god is what has been written by others. You cannot claim to know God so how can you judge Gods supposed actions without hearing from the defendant Himself?
Regards
DL

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:12 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 101 of 203 (789553)
08-16-2016 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Phat
08-16-2016 1:05 PM


Re: Universalist Gnostic Christian church
Phat
"Still...you have shown us a link but have not articulated why you believe that God is so darn mean. I do not see this in my relationship with Him. Perhaps you want us all to stop believing that God is apart from us in nature and that we all can be gods."
I think that Yahweh is mean because he is a genocidal son murdering god who always seems to kill instead of curing, --- even as he is said to be able to do either. Good does not always kill, evil does.
To your last.
I do not want you to believe that god is apart from you. I want you to see the god within you as natural.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
If you cannot see god in all, then you cannot see god at all. God is nature, so to speak, and man is the highest form of nature.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 102 of 203 (789554)
08-16-2016 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
08-16-2016 1:13 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat
You did not answer this. Why not?
Why would you slave yourself to a genocidal god who always seems to kill when he could just as easily cure those he thinks ill?
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:13 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:30 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 103 of 203 (789555)
08-16-2016 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by ringo
08-16-2016 1:17 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
ringo writes:
So how credible is your testimony when you've been kicking your habit (presumably with God's help) for years?
My testimony is honest. How credible it is is your call.
ringo writes:
You're the one who brought up Job. He wasn't responsible for causing his problems but he was responsible for dealing with them. God didn't help him with that.
We don't know whether God helped Job or not. Jobs assets and family were restored..the book does not say how, though we can surmise that Job simply got remarried and made more babies. How did he become rich again?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by ringo, posted 08-16-2016 1:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:33 PM Phat has replied
 Message 115 by ringo, posted 08-17-2016 11:37 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 104 of 203 (789556)
08-16-2016 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Greatest I am
08-16-2016 1:26 PM


Is God A Meanie?
Why would you slave yourself to a genocidal god who always seems to kill when he could just as easily cure those he thinks ill?
First of all, I do not see God as genocidal. Second, I am not slaving myself. I am willfully obedient, but I have a free will. I am not chained to any religion. Lastly, why doesn't God simply cure everybody? Well for that matter why doesn't God tie our shoes, go to work for us, and feed us directly from spoon to mouth? I believe He certainly could, if he wanted us to eternally remain babies.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:26 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:36 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 108 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 105 of 203 (789557)
08-16-2016 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Phat
08-16-2016 1:18 PM


Re: Judging The Judge
Phat
You do know what quotation marks represent. Right?
Phat writes:
I do not blame god for my gambling problem--it was my addiction and my responsibility.
My question on this is, --- your god created your nature. Why did he put that addictive nature in you knowing that you could not resist following your god given nature?
Seems like a set up to me.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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