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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 211 of 591 (789827)
08-20-2016 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Phat
08-20-2016 8:33 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
Phat writes:
... a Christian is called to do more than to simply be a worker bee that feeds and clothes people.
You can't do more than X before you do X.
Jesus said we will always have the poor with us, so you're never finished doing X.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Phat, posted 08-20-2016 8:33 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 08-21-2016 10:33 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 212 of 591 (789829)
08-20-2016 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by GDR
08-20-2016 11:01 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
GDR writes:
I just wanted to add that I agree, but also in that there was no awareness that they had done those things for/to Jesus. They simply did them because that's where there hearts were, and not because they were thinking about some future benefit from God.
Exactly. Which is why "spiritual" mumbo-jumbo isn't somehow "more" than "merely" helping people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by GDR, posted 08-20-2016 11:01 AM GDR has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 213 of 591 (789888)
08-21-2016 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by ringo
08-20-2016 11:43 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
Jesus said we will always have the poor with us, so you're never finished doing X.
So what good will it do merely to keep people fed if they die without knowing the Truth?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ringo, posted 08-20-2016 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by jar, posted 08-21-2016 10:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 216 by ringo, posted 08-22-2016 11:46 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 214 of 591 (789890)
08-21-2016 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Phat
08-21-2016 10:33 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Phat writes:
So what good will it do merely to keep people fed if they die without knowing the Truth?
LOL
Do you mean YOUR truth or some other truth?
And is not living somewhat important? Have you asked hungry people whether they prefer materialistic food or spiritual food?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 08-21-2016 10:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Asgara, posted 08-21-2016 10:41 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


(1)
Message 215 of 591 (789892)
08-21-2016 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by jar
08-21-2016 10:37 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
But Jar, you know spiritual food doesn't cost Phat anything that he thinks is his by right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by jar, posted 08-21-2016 10:37 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 216 of 591 (789928)
08-22-2016 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Phat
08-21-2016 10:33 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Phat writes:
So what good will it do merely to keep people fed if they die without knowing the Truth?
What good is it to know "The Truth" if you're dead?
Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 08-21-2016 10:33 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 1:16 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 217 of 591 (789934)
08-22-2016 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by ringo
08-22-2016 11:46 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
What good is it to know "The Truth" if you're dead?
John3:16 writes:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
And as long as I'm on this "quotes" kick, I may as well throw in David Niven--
I've taken up the Bible again, somewhat in the spirit of W.C. Fields - looking for loopholes.
David Niven

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by ringo, posted 08-22-2016 11:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by ringo, posted 08-22-2016 1:19 PM Phat has replied
 Message 221 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 1:42 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 218 of 591 (789936)
08-22-2016 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
08-22-2016 1:16 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
What good is it to know "The Truth" if you're dead?
John3:16 writes:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
What good is "eternal" life if this life is miserable?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 1:16 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 1:35 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 219 of 591 (789939)
08-22-2016 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by ringo
08-22-2016 1:19 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
What good is "eternal" life if this life is miserable?
I fully agree.
And again..im not against feeding people materialistically as it were..
I'm just saying not to limit a Christian to this task...its a waste of talent. Anybody can feed people.
Its like having a PhD teach 1st grade.
Normal folks dont know squat about eternal life.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by ringo, posted 08-22-2016 1:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Theodoric, posted 08-22-2016 1:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 233 by ringo, posted 08-23-2016 11:42 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 220 of 591 (789940)
08-22-2016 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Phat
08-22-2016 1:35 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
No one knows squat about eternal life.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 1:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 221 of 591 (789941)
08-22-2016 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
08-22-2016 1:16 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Phat writes:
Phat writes:
What good is it to know "The Truth" if you're dead?
John3:16 writes:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
And as long as I'm on this "quotes" kick, I may as well throw in David Niven--
I've taken up the Bible again, somewhat in the spirit of W.C. Fields - looking for loopholes.
David Niven
You use the term truth very loosely and I really wonder if you have a clue what the word means or what the quotes YOU provide mean?
Quoting John 3:16 out of context a great example of the utter bankruptcy and dishonesty of the "Biblical Christians".
First, the passage that begins at John 3:16 is an editorial comment by the author of John or a later redactor. In addition it is taken totally out of context to once again provide a cheap and easy get-otta-hell-free card while ignoring the rest of that paragraph.
So here it is in context:
quote:
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
Notice that it goes on to talk about how belief is shown and that is by doing, not just believing. Pay close attention to the parts the conmen usually skip over and leave out.
"19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."
It's about what people do Phat, not what they believe.
But you don't like that or having what the stories actually say pointed out and so you take John 3:16 as though it stood alone. That's pitiful.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 1:16 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 9:27 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 222 of 591 (789959)
08-22-2016 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by jar
08-22-2016 1:42 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
jar writes:
You use the term truth very loosely and I really wonder if you have a clue what the word means or what the quotes YOU provide mean?
The truth is the light. The truth is the Spirit. Jesus said to Pilate that He was(and is) the Truth.
Quoting John 3:16 out of context a great example of the utter bankruptcy and dishonesty of the "Biblical Christians".
You sure have it out for these so-called Biblical Christians, don't you. It seemingly infuriates you that they think they have found a loophole of getting out of hell and into heaven without doing any work. If you hung out with me for any length of time you would find that I do as much if not more "work" than you think. But thats irrelevant.
quote:
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
jar writes:
Notice that it goes on to talk about how belief is shown and that is by doing, not just believing.
Where have I ever indicated that doing is not necessary? All i have pointed out to Ringo is that a Christian has a bigger job to do than simply feed and cloth people like they work at a food bank/thrift store.
It's about what people do Phat, not what they believe.
Its about both, jar. Its just that simple.
jar writes:
But you don't like that...
I have no problem with you re-emphasizing it again and again. My only concern is that you have poor Ringo convinced that giving spare change and feeding people is enough. To me this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 1:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 9:52 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 223 of 591 (789962)
08-22-2016 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Phat
08-22-2016 9:27 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Phat writes:
I have no problem with you re-emphasizing it again and again. My only concern is that you have poor Ringo convinced that giving spare change and feeding people is enough. To me this is only the tip of the iceberg.
According to Jesus it is what we are to do. Where did Jesus say we should pray?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 9:27 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 10:54 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 224 of 591 (789964)
08-22-2016 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by jar
08-22-2016 9:52 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Did Jesus pray? Are we to take up our cross and follow Him? What does it mean to follow Him, if not to do as he did?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 9:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 11:17 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 225 of 591 (789967)
08-22-2016 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Phat
08-22-2016 10:54 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Phat writes:
Are we to take up our cross and follow Him? What does it mean to follow Him, if not to do as he did?
It means to feed the hungry, comfort the sorrowful, protect the weak, clothe the naked, heal the sick ...
Maybe those things have not be mentioned yet?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 10:54 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Phat, posted 08-23-2016 3:35 AM jar has replied

  
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