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Author | Topic: Why did we stop inventing gods? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
GIA writes: You seem to respect Karen Armstrong. She discusses Logos vs Mythos and also articulates the need for morality in global spirituality...much as you do. Her bio is brief: PhatYou asked more than once as to what I would change in terms of what people believe when I gave you the answer in the link I gave you. Perhaps you were too busy worrying about my formatting. Let me give it again. What is God? - Big ThinkRegards DL quote:I have not studied whether she believes in God or Jesus as something we humans are in communion with yet Who are of a higher archetype than we are or whether we all are the only gods we will ever know---as you believe. Still...you have shown us a link but have not articulated why you believe that God is so darn mean. I do not see this in my relationship with Him. Perhaps you want us all to stop believing that God is apart from us in nature and that we all can be gods. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Tell us more details! A testimony is only worth as much as the credibility of the author. People rarely gain credibility without being known.
I can testify that Bigfoot is sitting on my couch. How much is that testimony worth?So you attribute your gambling problem to God testing you? And being fired as God testing you? What a Bastard. I do not blame god for my gambling problem--it was my addiction and my responsibility. I was simply too weak to confront it because i have long preferred fantasy over reality. Getting fired was reality. I don't blame God for that, either.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Lets first correct this sloppy formatting, shall we?
GIA writes: Accepting Jesus as Lord means that you dont consider yourself more highly than you ought, for one thing. Humans are not gods. Humans will never solve their global,ethical, or personal problems through their own strength alone. Moreover, God considers us as sons--not slaves. Phat writes:
I was changed forever when I publicly confessed that Jesus is Lord... Having a Lord or master indicates that you think of yourself as a serf or slave. Why would you slave yourself to a genocidal god who always seems to kill when he could just as easily cure those he thinks ill? RegardsDL Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Again, GIA we have to correct this formatting as it is unclear what is being said by whom. Correct me if I am wrong. Essentially you are saying:
Phat,to GIA writes: the only evidence you have is what has been written by others. You cannot claim to know God so how can you judge Gods supposed actions without hearing from the defendant Himself? GIA writes: Further the only knowledge you have of god is what has been written by others. You cannot claim to know God so how can you judge Gods supposed actions without hearing from the defendant Himself? RegardsDL Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: My testimony is honest. How credible it is is your call.
So how credible is your testimony when you've been kicking your habit (presumably with God's help) for years? ringo writes: We don't know whether God helped Job or not. Jobs assets and family were restored..the book does not say how, though we can surmise that Job simply got remarried and made more babies. How did he become rich again? You're the one who brought up Job. He wasn't responsible for causing his problems but he was responsible for dealing with them. God didn't help him with that.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Why would you slave yourself to a genocidal god who always seems to kill when he could just as easily cure those he thinks ill? First of all, I do not see God as genocidal. Second, I am not slaving myself. I am willfully obedient, but I have a free will. I am not chained to any religion. Lastly, why doesn't God simply cure everybody? Well for that matter why doesn't God tie our shoes, go to work for us, and feed us directly from spoon to mouth? I believe He certainly could, if he wanted us to eternally remain babies.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
GIA writes: God created us as freewilled creatures with autonomous natures. We were not born addicted---though some may argue we were born addicted to sin.
My question on this is, --- your god created your nature. Why did he put that addictive nature in you knowing that you could not resist following your god given nature?Seems like a set up to me. Phat writes:
Jobs assets and family were restored...GIA writes: No. Job suffered pain. God did not directly cause that pain though by allowing satan to do it,critics could argue that God was responsible. Can the pain of losing a child be erased by having another child?So again the question: If God could prevent pain and suffering in our lives, why does He not? I maintain that reality is. There are days we will experience pain. There are days we will suffer. And about Noahs flood....what does the evidence show us concerning such an event? Can we hold God responsible for a story in a book that was written by humans? Seems to me if anything it is humans whom we should indict.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: I don't want anyone dicking with my head except me.You are delightfully honest. Tangle writes: See...I find new wisdom nearly every day. Reading it is one thing. Applying it is another.
There's absolutely nothing new to be found in the bible. It's been exactly the same for 2,000 years. I studied it for years and believed in it the same way you do now. It was my world view - been there, done that. Tangle writes: Perhaps they dont have special knowledge, but I would argue that many get insights that you or I might not yet understand. What you and your chums fail o realize is that God is living and active...as is the Word. Of course, you insist on evidence, as if the evidence isnt evident already. I can't convince you...thats for sure. The mistake that you and your chums continually make is to assume that by seemingly being clever, other people can know something they don't about this god thing. No-one, that's no-one, has any special knowledge of god; not those on my side - Dawkins, Hawking etc or those on yours - the pope and that charleton favourite of GDR's, C S Lewis. They're all as clueless as you and I.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: You likely saw no evidence. Being a man of reason...logic reason and reality were something tangible to you...so you changed your worldview. If you believe it, you apply it. There's no choice. Are you suggesting that when I believed it, I didn't? I have seen subjective evidence of the supernatural and I have also witnessed dramatic transformations in other peoples lives. People may claim it happens to everyone--not just believers---but I have yet to see it outside of my box.
Tangle writes: Again, yes I do. I have had personal experience. You may claim that you did also, but I doubt it. Not at the level I had, at any rate.
All you can do is assert it and hope. You have absolutely nothing else.Tangle writes: You have already convinced yourself that God does not exist, so I would have to unconvince you...which it is doubtful I can do.
if the evidence was evident you wouldn't have to convince me would you?Tangle writes: Thats good to hear. We will take this one day at a time. Until then, I hope that you have a good life. I live and breathe evidence, I will change my mind. I don't have a book that makes sure that I can't.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Please stop dragging this thread off topic.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Only a lost mind that knows nothing of justice would say that the hit-man is responsible and exonerate the Don who paid him for the hit. Except that in this context, the hit-man was complaining that Job was doing well..in fact was jealous that Job was so blessed and wanted to make the hit. The Don merely refused to exterminate the hit-man at that point. I suppose that we could argue that God is responsible for everything that satan does...but God never directly created an evil satan. God allowed the possibility of evil and Lucifer chose it...actualizing his purpose. Thus the hit man chose to become a hit man. I suppose you could blame God for everything...thus gnostically wanting to be your own god. You could, in effect, be your own hit man! The whole argument on free will, determinism, illusion of free will, etc... hinges on the basic idea that God has no right to know what we have not yet chosen. Ye shall be as gods. (Leave us the f*ck alone, Big Guy and let us actualize our own destiny!!)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Its like a potter with clay. So you choose to smush a few pieces back into the ball and start over? Clay is just clay....and humans are just humans...More of them can always be made. Who are we to b*tch at our Potter? (jar would argue that we not only have a right but a responsibility to set the potter straight!)
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
the God character directly forbids Adam and Eve from acquiring the knowledge needed to know to obey Thats not what the knowledge was, though...thats your interpretation of what it was. In addition, you claim the snake told the truth when the Bible clearly tells us that there is no truth in satan.
God told them that they would surely die. He never stated if it was a physical death or a spiritual death. Sometimes in your quest for literal reading you end up interpreting a message in a way that it was not intended to be told. You are not helping people by glorifying the snake and demonizing God.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Very true. If the concept of God could be tested, there wouldn't be thousands of competing concepts. One sticking point in our arguments is the idea that evidence is required. How do we gather evidence for God? The only evidence we have is that believers claim that God is evident. In other words, belief is our only evidence. And you want tests, as if we can ask Him to come down for a moment....oh wait...He already has! Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
GIA writes: Why is it evil to provide the sacrifice? Human sacrifice is evil and God demanding one and accepting one is evil. And how can someone who believes that we are the only gods there will ever be even try in the same breath to indict God? You may say you are not indicting God (since you don't believe in Him) but rather organized religion. So I think I understand your argument and passion. Here is a question for you: If you believe that we are the only gods there will ever be, would you not also say that we are the only devils there will ever be? If so, how do we become a unified and peaceful world? How do we get rid of the devil within us? Edited by Phat, : added featuresChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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