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Author Topic:   Why did we stop inventing gods?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18427
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 151 of 203 (791211)
09-12-2016 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by jar
09-12-2016 5:21 PM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
jar writes:
Your question has nothing to do with what you quoted my saying. I'm saying the folk marketing Christianity today have an entirely different intent than the folk that wrote the stories. In fact most of the story tellers almost certainly had no intent to ever say anything about Jesus or Christianity. The reason I say that is I actually read what was written.
Yes, but I was talking about marketing. Would you not agree that every club markets a different product?
jar writes:
I have no idea what God Jesus marketed or even a clue related to that. Jesus marketed a behavioral belief set rather than some God.
Do you believe that you market a behavioral belief set? I think you do. Many clubs and churches do also. The intent of my original question was how (according to the stories) did Jesus see God? Would Jesus have said--as you have--that
quote:
My intent is not to market a God since I am very very sure that any God I can imagine or worship is totally different from GOD if GOD exists.
Lets assume that Jesus would respond--when people asked Him to show us the father by saying "watch and learn".
Do you believe that Jesus knew His Father intimately or do you believe that Jesus had no clue how GOD looked or Who He Was?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by jar, posted 09-12-2016 5:21 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 09-12-2016 7:40 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 152 of 203 (791215)
09-12-2016 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Phat
09-12-2016 6:04 PM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Phat writes:
Yes, but I was talking about marketing. Would you not agree that every club markets a different product?
Not just every club but often every chapter of every club and the evidence shows that was also true in every era. As I pointed out the God of Genesis 1 is an entirely different character than the God of Genesis 2&3. Neither of those Gods shows any resemblance to any of the Gods described in the New Testament. And that is also seen in every other belief system; the Gods created reflect the culture of the creators.
Phat writes:
Lets assume that Jesus would respond--when people asked Him to show us the father by saying "watch and learn".
Do you believe that Jesus knew His Father intimately or do you believe that Jesus had no clue how GOD looked or Who He Was?
On the first assumption I would say Jesus would say no such thing; rather he would say "Watch and learn how God wants you to behave."
On the second question I have no idea how Jesus when alive on Earth could know God intimately or what God looked like if God looks like anything or who God is.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 09-12-2016 6:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 09-12-2016 11:53 PM jar has replied
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 09-16-2016 6:26 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18427
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 153 of 203 (791222)
09-12-2016 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by jar
09-12-2016 7:40 PM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
jar writes:
On the first assumption I would say Jesus would say no such thing; rather he would say "Watch and learn how God wants you to behave."
So Jesus saw Himself as God? Would you behave that way?
On the second question I have no idea how Jesus when alive on Earth could know God intimately or what God looked like if God looks like anything or who God is.
So Jesus didn't recognize or know His Father? Seems you contradict yourself here...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 09-12-2016 7:40 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 09-13-2016 8:03 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 154 of 203 (791228)
09-13-2016 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
09-12-2016 11:53 PM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Paht writes:
jar writes:
On the first assumption I would say Jesus would say no such thing; rather he would say "Watch and learn how God wants you to behave."
So Jesus saw Himself as God? Would you behave that way?
I cannot imagine how you could get that from what I said. I see no evidence that Jesus saw himself as God. He did see himself as a person carrying a message he thought was from God.
Phat writes:
jar writes:
On the second question I have no idea how Jesus when alive on Earth could know God intimately or what God looked like if God looks like anything or who God is.
So Jesus didn't recognize or know His Father? Seems you contradict yourself here...
I see no contradicts there. Perhaps you can point them out?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 09-12-2016 11:53 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 520 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 155 of 203 (791246)
09-13-2016 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Phat
09-12-2016 5:08 PM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Phat writes:
Do you believe that GOD as you understand Him/Her/It is vastly different from the Father God that Jesus marketed..according to the Gospels?
You have to remember that it wasn't Jesus doing the marketing; it was the Gospel writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke John, et al., who were marketing Jesus. The switch from Judaism to Christianity was a switch from marketing a product to marketing the salesman. The brand became more important than the product.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Phat, posted 09-12-2016 5:08 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Greatest I am, posted 09-13-2016 4:41 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 382 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 156 of 203 (791281)
09-13-2016 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by ringo
09-13-2016 11:50 AM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Ringo
Which is likely why Christians adore the genocidal son murderer Yahweh. They are keeping their eyes on the prize of salvation while ignoring that that same god is the one who condemned them in the first place.
Intellectual and moral dissonance that.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by ringo, posted 09-13-2016 11:50 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 3:09 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18427
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 157 of 203 (791294)
09-14-2016 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Greatest I am
09-13-2016 4:41 PM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
yes but in the big picture what difference are you making by spending so much time starting so many blogs to discuss this? Are you actually doing anything for people? Do you feed,clothe,or encourage anyone? There will always be people who worship something you disagree with, but if God is not real what difference does it make? What is the god in you doing for humanity?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Greatest I am, posted 09-13-2016 4:41 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Tangle, posted 09-14-2016 5:56 AM Phat has replied
 Message 161 by Greatest I am, posted 09-14-2016 1:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 158 of 203 (791298)
09-14-2016 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Phat
09-14-2016 3:09 AM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Phat writes:
What is the go[o]d in you doing for humanity?
You can't be asking what is the good in doing good for it's own sake surely?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 3:09 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 8:46 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18427
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 159 of 203 (791301)
09-14-2016 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Tangle
09-14-2016 5:56 AM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
no, but all he does is start topics with the same old stuff. I can see if a believer discusses God, but how can an unbeliever (or a believer in themselves) talk about what God or god or (insert deity here) does? For example, you comment on truth claims that we make by declaring that God doesnt exist...which is fine. GIA, however, has stated that humans are the "only god there is" and then talks about God as an evil tyrant for killing Jesus. How silly is that?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Tangle, posted 09-14-2016 5:56 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Greatest I am, posted 09-14-2016 1:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 160 of 203 (791313)
09-14-2016 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by 1.61803
09-12-2016 3:52 PM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
I wonder what ever did happen to Crashfrog???
If I recall correctly, he had a disagreement with the moderators about his tendency to accuse folks of lying and decided that he could not post here without some relief from the way the rules were being applied to him.
I hope I phrased that in the most neutral way possible.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by 1.61803, posted 09-12-2016 3:52 PM 1.61803 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Greatest I am, posted 09-14-2016 1:54 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 382 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 161 of 203 (791330)
09-14-2016 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Phat
09-14-2016 3:09 AM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Phat
"yes but in the big picture what difference are you making by spending so much time starting so many blogs to discuss this?"
Are you not familiar with the Abrahamic religions?
Has Christianity and Islam not grown their religions by the sword instead of good deeds?
Yes they have, so why are you showing such immoral religions respect?
------
"Are you actually doing anything for people?"
I do my part and you can see the results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
What do you see your god doing except nothing?
-----
"Do you feed,clothe,or encourage anyone?"
Yes on all counts, especially showing neophytes how immoral the Abrahamic cults are.
Why are you promoting immoral religions?
------
" There will always be people who worship something you disagree with, but if God is not real what difference does it make? What is the god in you doing for humanity?"
Correcting stupid and immoral thinking by those who have lost their common sense and logic to the supernatural and fantasy.
Why do you promote what is not real and demonstrably immoral?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 3:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 382 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 162 of 203 (791331)
09-14-2016 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Phat
09-14-2016 8:46 AM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Phat
GIA, however, has stated that humans are the "only god there is"
True as that is a truth. God as defined as the best rules and laws to live by. Have you not noticed how we human gods have bested most of bible gods rules?
Would you like to live under your gods rules?
------
"and then talks about God as an evil tyrant for killing Jesus. How silly is that?"
Do you think it good for Father to have his son murdered to satisfy his own wrath?
As you step up to ride your scapegoat Jesus in to heaven, remember -
As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 8:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 382 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 163 of 203 (791332)
09-14-2016 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by NoNukes
09-14-2016 11:20 AM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
NoNukes
If not for lies and un-provable faith statements, Christians and Muslims would have almost nothing to say.
All priests and imams do constantly is make such statements as truth and those are lies.
Only fools will say there is a supernatural god while thinking that people who recognize truth will not think they are liars.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2016 11:20 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2016 2:59 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 164 of 203 (791347)
09-14-2016 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Greatest I am
09-14-2016 1:54 PM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
If not for lies and un-provable faith statements, Christians and Muslims would have almost nothing to say.
Nice shot.
I wonder if you have some way of defending your own beliefs that does not involve instead denigrating the beliefs of others to make yours seem reasonable. Because insulting other folks seems to be the raison d’tre for every bleeping thread you start.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Greatest I am, posted 09-14-2016 1:54 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Greatest I am, posted 09-14-2016 8:08 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 382 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 165 of 203 (791374)
09-14-2016 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by NoNukes
09-14-2016 2:59 PM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
NoNukes
"I wonder if you have some way of defending your own beliefs that does not involve instead denigrating the beliefs of others to make yours seem reasonable."
Yes.
I do both as opportunities arise.
You might have noticed that I often compare Gnostic Christian ideology to the Christian one. That is why I concentrate on morals and do not care what else others believe, although I fell it my duty to save as many from delusional and supernatural beliefs that prove to be detrimental to a person's moral positions.
Christians especially have allowed their beliefs to compromise and corrupt their morals. They have developed an immoral double standard where they forgive and love their god even more for the same actions that they condemn men for.
EG: Yahweh is forgiven for genocide while men are condemned for it.
I also see religions as the main cause of many wars and do not like that people give respect to such immoral creeds and ideologies.
------
"Because insulting other folks seems to be the raison d’tre for every bleeping thread you start."
Generally because of their poor thinking.
What you see as insult, I see as correcting as I live by these decent moral tenets.
Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
The religious of the world need the most correcting and that is what I try to do, as gently as possible.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2016 2:59 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 8:14 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
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