A Believers Critique Of The Humanist Manifesto

Phat writes: Everything that I have read from Biblical Christians (who critics call conservative,uninformed, and in a realm of fantasy versus reality) indicates that the world will by and large reject all forms of organized religion due to the fundamentalist oppressive nature of its tenets and will embrace a form of belief in the human animal and our collective potential known as secular humanism.

Of course, this is inevitable and has already happened successfully in most of Western Europe. Knowledge will always overcome superstition.

What does the evidence show us regarding international relations, global finance, the steady decline of the United States both morally and financially, and the rise of false religion the world over?

How are you measuring this financial and moral decline? You've abolished slavery, you no longer hunt and kill aboriginal Americans, you're beginning to understand your racism. You've developed powerful institutions of social justice, education and healthcare. Finacially you're the richest country in the world. You guys need to get out more. You've got a long way to go dealing with inequality and poverty but you've come a long way in a couple of hundred years.

And what's this false religion bollocks? All religions are false except the one you were personally born into? Religious belief is not rising, it's falling. Where are you getting these myths from?

Astonishing isn't it, some people have beliefs that differ from yours?

Phat writes: Perhaps I am arrogant, but I find it hard to compromise without weakening my basic stance.

Well, exactly. Other views - however reasonable or evidence based - must be dismissed at all costs because they might challenge your own. If there was one single reason why irrational belief sysyems need to be replaced, this is it.

Faith writes: I'm also not sure what to expect but more and more Christians are expecting some kind of worldwide political manifestation soon that is thought of as a Final Act before Jesus returns

Nope factually wrong yet again.

Christians have been saying this since the crucifiction. Never happened, never will.

Now there are fewer Christians and, of those, fewer fundies believing daft things like that. You're a dwinding minority.

Faith writes: But perhaps I'm missing what you think is my factual error? Please enlighten.

1. The absolute and relative decline of Christianity
2. The absolute and relative decline of biblical fundamentalism amongst Christians
3. The abject failure of all prior predictions of end-times.

Do I really need to provide you with numbers? You are hearing more because you want to hear it. When you buy a new car you start to see them everywhere. It's all very obvious stuff. You have no sense of history or perspective.

Ah, that old canard. Oh well.

Yes, the one where prophets predict the end of the world in every generation and it doesn't happen.

Faith writes: However, assuming you are right it makes an interesting bit of evidence FOR The end times,........The failure of prior predictions is a really weird one, since rather than proving the prophecies wrong it just brings us closer to their fulfillment.

Heads you win, tails I lose huh?

It's a fascinating example of confirmation bias - you find evidence for your beliefs in both the failure of prophecy and the future success of prophecy because of its failure.
Extraordinary.

Humanism is Christianity without the myth, magic and mania.

Or something like that TM.

Phat writes: I am not marketing Leprechauns, here.

But you are Phat, you are.

Phat writes: It seems that the battle is far from over.

Of course it isn't. There are still whole swards of the world consumed by religion. Religion has had people by the throat for thousands of years - it's only been challenged by reason for a couple of hundred.

The American Humanist Association, a staunch defender of Scientific Integrity recently derided the US Supreme Court for allowing a church to receive federal funding.

Quite rightly.

AHA Condemns Supreme Court Ruling Sending Tax Dollars to Churches I would argue that at least some of the taxpayers are Christians...and the church playground benefits secular kids as well...

So what? Separation means separation - if the state is funding churches it's not separate from them.

The issue in my mind is not simply separation of church and state. It is a test as to who calls the shots.

It's simple, the answer is the state. How can it be anything else? The state represents ALL the people not just some of them. You have to ask 'which church?' Every believer will assume it's theirs and not the others. That's why separation was decided right at the beginning by your founders.

There's very good, objective reasons why the entirety of humanity should be discussing how we're affecting our planet and then rolling our sleeves up to do something about it.

That's totally different to fundamentalist idiots telling us that god is going to bring about the end of the world next week because of gay marriage or some other such bollox supposedly written by near cavemen thousands of years ago.