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Author Topic:   Glenn Morton's Evidence Examined
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 202 of 427 (791256)
09-13-2016 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
09-13-2016 11:16 AM


Re: dating ain't an exact science
Faith writes:
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence.
Yet another keeper. This one is going into my signature.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 09-13-2016 11:16 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 206 of 427 (791267)
09-13-2016 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Faith
09-13-2016 2:55 PM


Re: The utter nonsense of uninhabitable landscapes in ROCKS:
Gee I really like my evidence of the ammonites and the tracks in the rocks.
It is pretty clear that for you, evidence means facts about which you weave a story that you find satisfying. Again, if all you have is tracks, and there are multiple stories that can be woven, then what you have is not evidence until you can distinguish between the stories. Tracks are easily explained by animals living in an area at any time.
On the other hand, jar cites evidence some of which you've acknowledged that you cannot currently explain using a global Flood. Under any impartial weighing of the evidence, you lose.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 09-13-2016 2:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 09-13-2016 3:12 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 212 of 427 (791273)
09-13-2016 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
09-13-2016 3:12 PM


Re: The utter nonsense of uninhabitable landscapes in ROCKS:
Except in the case of tracks found on the surface of rocks in the strata
Very easily explained. All that is required is that after lithification, a previous surface is reexposed via erosion.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 09-13-2016 3:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Faith, posted 09-13-2016 4:20 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 427 (791286)
09-13-2016 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Faith
09-13-2016 4:20 PM


Re: The utter nonsense of uninhabitable landscapes in ROCKS:
And reexposing more sediment/rock would accomplish what?
A layer of rock with footprints in it. Exactly what you claim only happens from a flood.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Faith, posted 09-13-2016 4:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 09-13-2016 7:32 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 223 of 427 (791292)
09-14-2016 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
09-13-2016 7:32 PM


Re: The utter nonsense of uninhabitable landscapes in ROCKS:
I claim that footprints preserved in rock happen only in a flood?
You challenged my statement that footprints in rock was evidence that had only on interpretation. Do you want to back off of that position?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 09-13-2016 7:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 10:49 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 233 of 427 (791312)
09-14-2016 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Faith
09-14-2016 10:49 AM


Re: The utter nonsense of uninhabitable landscapes in ROCKS:
NoNukes writes:
You challenged my statement that footprints in rock was evidence that had only on interpretation. Do you want to back off of that position?
Faith writes:
Sorry, no comprendo.
Yep, that old canard. Again. Here is a refresher showing the previous discussion.
NoNukes writes:
Again, if all you have is tracks, and there are multiple stories that can be woven, then what you have is not evidence until you can distinguish between the stories. Tracks are easily explained by animals living in an area at any time.
Faith writes:
Except in the case of tracks found on the surface of rocks in the strata
So yeah, you did claim that tracks found in the surface of rocks in the strata was only explained by the Flood. Either that or your post was a complete non-sequitur and nonsense.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 10:49 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:37 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 427 (791315)
09-14-2016 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Faith
09-14-2016 11:05 AM


Re: Continuing with OEC arguments: Flood was not Global
He claims the Flood wasn't Global. There is one very brief answer to this that ought to satisfy someone who claims he's still a Christian:
Faith. John 3:16. Please.
It is not a pre-requisite that one take the ark story literally in order to be a Christian. All that is necessary to is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and to repent from your sins. Period. I am quite surprised how folks who professes to be a Christian say otherwise so often. Please remind me not to take you along on an out reach trip.
There would have been no need whatever for Noah to build an ark to carry all animals if the Flood were not global. It took him a hundred years to build it, enough time to have escaped to any area that would have been spared the Flood.
You make a number of other huge assumptions about what Morton had to believe.
1) All that would have been necessary was for the known world to be flooded to prevent Noah's escape. Global flood not required. There would have been no reason, for example to Flood North and South America.
2) You are challenging a non literal interpretation of the Bible by insisting on a literal translation of the Bible. Morton may not have accepted nearly as much as you are insisting on. No global flood means no need to even spend 100 years making a boat. Smaller flood, smaller boat, fewer animals.
I don't think there's anything else to say on this subject.
Sigh.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:05 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:43 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 237 of 427 (791317)
09-14-2016 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
09-14-2016 11:33 AM


Re: Continuing with OEC Arguments: Fossil sorting
This observation does at least disprove the hydrodynamic explanation for most of the sorting of the fossils, but all that means is that another explanation is needed. "Birds of a feather flock together" or in other words different locations of the different fossil groups, seems to me to be the best explanation.
As you are doubtless aware, even that your "another explanation", which is not even new, is not enough. There is no explanation. Instead there is only your hope that an explanation will be found.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:33 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:44 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 239 of 427 (791319)
09-14-2016 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Faith
09-14-2016 11:37 AM


Re: The utter nonsense of uninhabitable landscapes in ROCKS:
Sorry if I can't remember all your strange comments in their proper context.
A discussion requires remembering what was said in at least the last exchange. But beyond that, post from yesterday are always available to read today.
So yes on the surface of the rocks in the strata the tracks would have had to occur during the Flood.
I just provided an alternative to your explanation, so no, rocks on the surface do not have to occur because of a flood, regardless of whether they do or do not contain footprints.
If you have some rationale beyond simply asserting such, perhaps this is the time to post it.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:37 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:46 AM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 242 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:47 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 250 of 427 (791338)
09-14-2016 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by Faith
09-14-2016 11:47 AM


Re: The utter nonsense of uninhabitable landscapes in ROCKS:
What alternative explanation?
This chain of posts has become idiotic. If by saying so, I've earned a suspension then I'll gladly take it now. But your refusal to follow a chain of two/three posts two times in a row is beyond reasonable.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:47 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 254 of 427 (791342)
09-14-2016 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Faith
09-14-2016 11:43 AM


Re: Continuing with OEC arguments: Flood was not Global
Dang it, NN, I'm not saying he isn't a Christian,
Here is exactly what you said when you posted your nonsense:
There is one very brief answer to this that ought to satisfy someone who claims he's still a Christian: There would have been no need whatever for Noah to build an ark to carry all animals if the Flood were not global.
Your answer, which requires acceptance of your YEC beliefs is not satisfactory to any Christian who does not accept them, be that person Morton, myself, GDR, etc. Your statement is nonsense. Your insistence that such folks are not Christian is non Biblical.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by Admin, : Fix second quote. It was too brief for me to make sense of the response, so I filled it out.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Faith, posted 09-14-2016 11:43 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 364 of 427 (791635)
09-19-2016 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Faith
09-18-2016 5:33 PM


I don't know if HBD read the early part of the thread, but he doesn't seem to have taken into account that a number of posters agreed that it is possible to find oil without using the dating methods or assumptions of OE Geology, simply knowing the relative dates of the rocks in relation to one another
Nobody said anything like this other than you. None of us who agreed that a YEC could find oil said diddly squat about relative ages. My personal comment was that a YEC might find oil because a real geologist had already figured out some formations that might generate oil, and a YEC could cookbook his way into finding oil at least some of the time. I highly doubt that the YEC would be highly effective by ignoring real world evidence.
And of course we have evidence of YEC folks going off on multi-million dollar boon doggles in which they waste other YECs money trying to find oil "Biblically". YEC methods do not work. Because there is no reliable YEC model for how oil and gas actually formed in the first place, unscientific pseudo history has zero predictive power. You might just as well use a dowsing rod.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 09-18-2016 5:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Faith, posted 09-19-2016 12:45 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 376 by kbertsche, posted 09-19-2016 4:46 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 368 of 427 (791642)
09-19-2016 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Faith
09-19-2016 2:03 PM


The information about the order of the strata and the fossils doesn't require OE theory, nor does knowledge of the morphology of the rocks, meaning how the rocks are situated underground.
Why would certain geological configurations be associated with oil? Real geologists have a working model based partially on the ages of rocks and that allows them to make that call. Faux geologists can simply take what geologists have figured out using science and look for the same thing.
I'm still waiting for someone to prove that OE theory is necessary to finding oil.
You have not even suggested how a YEC would know where to look before a real geologists tells him. That's the point everyone here is making. It is the same one that ringo makes. If you don't know how this would work then you are just speculating.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Faith, posted 09-19-2016 2:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 09-19-2016 2:45 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 371 of 427 (791646)
09-19-2016 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by Faith
09-19-2016 2:45 PM


fdsafsd
Edited by NoNukes, : Pointless.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 09-19-2016 2:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Faith, posted 09-19-2016 3:29 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 400 of 427 (791689)
09-19-2016 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by kbertsche
09-19-2016 4:46 PM


it has been claimed by some in this thread that it is necessary to know the geologic history of a site in order to find oil. This is not true. If one is near a known large oil field, all that is needed is good interpretation of seismic surveys to identify faults, salt domes, and other features that might have trapped a significant amount of oil. (and most oil exploration today is done near already-known oil fields.)
Where did you say anything about the use of relative ages here? Faith's claim is that you can use relative ages in place of absolute ages and get the same results that other geologist use.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by kbertsche, posted 09-19-2016 4:46 PM kbertsche has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by Faith, posted 09-19-2016 9:45 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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