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Author Topic:   Explaining the pro-Evolution position
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(4)
Message 54 of 393 (792409)
10-09-2016 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Kleinman
10-07-2016 9:03 PM


Failing Peer Review
Kleinman, people are getting testy with you. Your approach here is not welcome.
You have the wrong idea about what is happening on this forum when it comes to presenting alternative ideas.
If you have a proposal to make then make it, in toto. Explain to us what your hypothesis actually is. Explain the problem, state your assumptions, show us your data, show us your process (complete with the math you hint is necessary) and show us your conclusions. Do it all in one post, or, if that complex, in as few as possible for complete understanding.
Stop trying to teach us through this demeaning question/hint crap. This is not your classroom.
This is your peer review and so far you are failing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Kleinman, posted 10-07-2016 9:03 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 8:25 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 64 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 8:37 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 68 of 393 (792435)
10-09-2016 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Kleinman
10-09-2016 8:37 PM


Re: Why the Theory of Evolution is not true
Since AZPaul3 doesn't have the mathematical skill to peer review a probability problem, let's call this thread Why the Theory of Evolution is not true
You have no idea of the strength of my math abilities, but you have shown us ample reason to doubt yours.
Don't change the thread on my account. Or are you trying to escape your opening gambit because you are incapable of following through?
Go ahead. Let us see your full argument. Show us your skills and your majik. Prove to us, in deep mathematical detail, how the TOE cannot be correct. I assure you I will do my best to keep up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 8:37 PM Kleinman has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 73 of 393 (792441)
10-09-2016 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Kleinman
10-09-2016 9:07 PM


Re: This seems like a good place...
my argument is that randommutationandnaturalselectioncan'tdoit. And the reason rmns can't do it is the multiplication rule of probabilities.
Prove it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 9:07 PM Kleinman has replied

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 Message 76 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 10:04 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 85 of 393 (792454)
10-09-2016 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Kleinman
10-09-2016 10:04 PM


Re: This seems like a good place...
my argument is that randommutationandnaturalselectioncan'tdoit. And the reason rmns can't do it is the multiplication rule of probabilities.
Prove it.
Let's start with a simple minimally mathematic analogy to help you understand how rmns operates:
Let's say that in order for your family to survive, your family must win two lotteries. And the probability of winning the first lottery is 1 in a million and the probability of winning the second lottery is 1 in a million.
So, in your mind this shows TOE to be false. OK.
Now we can go watch football.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 124 of 393 (792523)
10-10-2016 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Kleinman
10-10-2016 9:07 PM


Re: It's already peer reviewed
They identified at least eight different genes which would have to be transformed. My response was, "Very interesting, how can you transform eight genes at a time subject to selection when HIV, the fastest evolving replicator known can not evolve efficiently to 3 selection pressures targeting only 2 genes?"
Quite easily, actually. A population of millions (+-) of dinos over a span of millions of years can easily progress from undifferentiated tubular follicle collars developed out of the old keratinocytes being pushed out, through the inner, basilar layer of the follicle collar differentiating into longitudinal barb ridges with unbranched keratin filaments, while the thin peripheral layer of the collar become the deciduous sheath, forming a tuft of unbranched barbs with a basal calamus, through the helical displacement of barb ridges arising within the collar and the barbules pairing within the peripheral barbule plates of the barb ridges, creating branched barbs with rami and barbules, then through having differentiated distal and proximal barbules producing a closed, pennaceous vane with a closed vane that develops when pennulae on the distal barbules form a hooked shape to attach to the simpler proximal barbules of the adjacent barband, and finally, developmental novelties giving rise to additional structural diversity in the closed pennaceous feather.**
With millions of dinos over millions of years nature (mutation and selection) can do such things.
Your comparison with HIV is bogus since the drug cocktails are selected specifically to kill HIV and when the virus evolves a resistance to one another is put in its place. The evolution of feathers did not have that level of artificial pressure applied and had plenty of time to experiment with incremental developments on millions of genomes over millions of years.
You do believe in millions of years, do you not?
** Thanks Wiki
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Kleinman, posted 10-10-2016 9:07 PM Kleinman has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 136 of 393 (792536)
10-11-2016 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Kleinman
10-10-2016 10:55 PM


Re: It's already peer reviewed
So perhaps you want to tell us what those selection pressures were that transform keratinocytes from scale producers to feather producers?
So you're one of those "Darwin", "Darwinism" naysayers that are stuck (or purposefully want to be stuck) on the idea that all traits of all organisms must be the product of selection. This is a glowing ignorance of the Theory of Evolution. Natural Selection is not the sole determinant of phenotypic features. Every detail of every organism is not the product of selection pressures.
I suggest you take a few months off to research and learn the limits of selection and what other vectors are known to produce novel features in a phenotype. Most of the fine details, and even some major ones, of the phenotype are not adaptive through selection pressures.
"I came to work here six years ago and the dinosaur skeleton was a million years old then"!
Cute. Nice way to dodge the question.
Are you a YEC?
[ABE] BTW, That dino skeleton had better be considerably more than 1 million and six years old.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 179 of 393 (792594)
10-11-2016 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Kleinman
10-11-2016 6:44 PM


Re: It's already peer reviewed
I do think it is really weird to think that a T Rex red blood cell could last 70 million years.
Well, if there is one thing we learned a long time ago it is that this universe is way weird indeed. There is no doubt, however, that Bob the T. rex, a she actually, she is indeed some 68 million years old. Nothing like this should surprise us any more. We do live in a wonderfully weird world.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 180 of 393 (792595)
10-11-2016 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Kleinman
10-11-2016 8:58 PM


Re: Kleinman's argument
So you have the genetic sequences for dinosaurs?
Any pigeon will give you that.

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Replies to this message:
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