Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Explaining the pro-Evolution position
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 7 of 393 (792242)
10-07-2016 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Kleinman
10-07-2016 1:20 PM


Kleinman writes:
There is a difference between "Evolution" and "The Theory of Evolution"
Yes, evolution is a fact and the Theory of Evolution is the only real explanation of that fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Kleinman, posted 10-07-2016 1:20 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Kleinman, posted 10-07-2016 1:51 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(4)
Message 51 of 393 (792386)
10-08-2016 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Kleinman
10-07-2016 1:51 PM


Kleinman writes:
Why does combination therapy work for the treatment of HIV?
You might as well ask why lead works for bullets. There is an explanation but it has nothing to do with the topic. All that matters is that it does work.
The same applies to the Theory of Evolution. All that matters is that it works as an explanation of the fact of evolution. Nobody is claiming that the Theory of Evolution is "absolute truth". They're only saying that it works. And it's the only explanation that works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Kleinman, posted 10-07-2016 1:51 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 8:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 149 of 393 (792554)
10-11-2016 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Kleinman
10-09-2016 8:02 PM


Kleinman writes:
And don't get me wrong, evolution does occur, but the mechanisms of evolution, in particular, rmns, can not make the genetic transformations necessary for the theory of evolution to be true.
Theories are not "true" or "false". They are good or bad, complete or incomplete, useful or not useful, etc. The Theory of Evolution is a good explanation of how evolution happens. It is also the only explanation we have, which makes it by default the best. It is fairly complete. It is very useful.
I'm sorry, but you can't use mathematics to trump that. If the mathematics disagrees with reality, it's the mathematics that you've got wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 8:02 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Kleinman, posted 10-11-2016 8:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 205 of 393 (792642)
10-12-2016 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Kleinman
10-11-2016 8:12 PM


Kleinman writes:
The theory of evolution doesn't explain anything. It doesn't explain how rmns works, it doesn't explain how recombination works.
It explains why we get a different strain of flu every year - the flu bugs mutate and the mutant strains that survive are the ones that survive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Kleinman, posted 10-11-2016 8:12 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 278 of 393 (792793)
10-14-2016 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Kleinman
10-14-2016 11:51 AM


Re: Mathematics cannot change reality but when done correctly can predict it
Kleinman writes:
There seems to be some misunderstanding to my argument. rmns is a mechanism of evolution which does occur and I have explained exactly how it works. It is the theory of evolution, the notion that some primordial replicator through rmns evolved into all the life forms we see today is a mathematically irrational belief system.
The challenge for you is to show what could prevent random mutation and natural selection from evolving a primordial replicator into all the life forms we see today. You need to show a physical/chemical/biological roadblock, not just a mathematical fantasy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Kleinman, posted 10-14-2016 11:51 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Kleinman, posted 10-14-2016 12:47 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 300 of 393 (792816)
10-14-2016 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Kleinman
10-14-2016 12:47 PM


Re: Mathematics cannot change reality but when done correctly can predict it
Kleinman writes:
You don't think that the multiplication rule of probabilities is a roadblock?
I asked for a physical roadblock. So far it looks like you've just got the mathematics wrong, so a mathematical roadblock doesn't cut it.
Kleinman writes:
I hope your expectations aren't too high when you buy tickets to two different lotteries and think you are going to win both.
Of course there's nothing to prevent that from happening.
Kleinman writes:
And then if you think about the length of the human genome, 3e9, how many tickets do you need to buy to win all those lotteries?
But it isn't a question of winning all of them independently. What if the prize in Lottery A is a million tickets for Lottery B?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Kleinman, posted 10-14-2016 12:47 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 319 by Kleinman, posted 10-14-2016 2:23 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 387 of 393 (792924)
10-15-2016 11:51 AM


You can multiply non-zero probabilities until the cows come home and you'll always get a non-zero result. That's mathematics, son!
Edited by ringo, : "never" --> "always" (sign error)

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024