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Author Topic:   The Great Creationist Fossil Failure
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 646 of 1163 (793812)
11-06-2016 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 645 by Coyote
11-06-2016 9:00 AM


Re: Stromatolites
I'm not an expert in that area, neither in this thread.
But I'm just here to show you that the fossil record does fit in with creationism.
I wouldn't say it fits evolution, just not enough transitional fossils, especially preceding the Cambrian Explosion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Coyote, posted 11-06-2016 9:00 AM Coyote has not replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 647 of 1163 (793813)
11-06-2016 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 644 by Coyote
11-06-2016 8:57 AM


Re: Haplogroups
I don't buy the arrows. I need more evidence than that.
The arrows merely reflect the earlier "out of Africa" hypothesis based on fossils , not on DNA. The actual DNA variety in the Middle east tells a different story. Please explain why they pointed the Africa arrows up, it makes more sense to point them down from the Middle East.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 644 by Coyote, posted 11-06-2016 8:57 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 650 by Coyote, posted 11-06-2016 9:55 AM mindspawn has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 648 of 1163 (793815)
11-06-2016 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 643 by Theodoric
11-06-2016 8:47 AM


Narmer Tablets
They used to write off Troy as a myth until it was found. Are you referring to the Egyptian Narmer Tablets?
Certainly the existence of those dinosaur depictions in Egyptian artifacts is enough to make many think twice about schoolbook history. It takes a free thinker to do so, obviously most of you are emotionally invested in your side of this debate to really free your minds to alternative possibilities. But always the academic mind should consider the alternatives and truly weigh up the core evidence for a view.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 643 by Theodoric, posted 11-06-2016 8:47 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 660 by Theodoric, posted 11-06-2016 10:26 AM mindspawn has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 649 of 1163 (793816)
11-06-2016 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 641 by jar
11-06-2016 7:46 AM


Pre-flood humans
I already explained that the concentration of humans would naturally be where the bible described them, which is a pre-flood highland area. And to find mammals we would have to look in an area with similar eco-system to today, an area of pre-flood angiosperms. This area is in Siberia.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 641 by jar, posted 11-06-2016 7:46 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 653 by jar, posted 11-06-2016 10:08 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 650 of 1163 (793817)
11-06-2016 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 647 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 9:38 AM


Re: Haplogroups
Massive Genetic Study Supports "Out of Africa" Theory
John Roach
for National Geographic News
February 21, 2008
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...21-human-genetics.html
A massive new study of human genetic diversity reveals surprising insights into our species' evolution and migrationsincluding support for the theory that the first modern humans originated in Africascientists said today.
Researchers compared 650,000 genetic markers in nearly a thousand individuals from 51 populations around the globean unprecedented level of detail for a human genetic study.
"You get less and less variation the further you go from Africa," said Marcus Feldman, an evolutionary biologist at Stanford University in California and a study co-author.
Such a pattern fits the theory that the first modern humans settled the world in stepping-stone fashion after leaving Africa less than 100,000 years ago.
As each small group of people broke away to found a new region, it took only a sample of the parent population's genetic diversity.
"If you keep sampling like that, then mathematically you must lose variation," Feldman explained.
More

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 647 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 9:38 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 10:11 AM Coyote has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 651 of 1163 (793818)
11-06-2016 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 642 by jar
11-06-2016 7:52 AM


Pre-flood mammals
Like I explained in my previous post, pre-flood mammals would be found in a rare pre-flood environment conducive to mammals. One would look in the same place one finds pre-flood angiosperm fossils. ie Siberia.
Obviously mammals would not be found in those wet flood vulnerable areas suited to amphibians.
The theory of evolution is missing a lot more fossils than just mammals. You are missing nearly EVERY fossil. The ones found are only a tiny tip of the iceberg of fossils that should exist because you should be able to show a transition for EVERY creature that exists. Yet you just have the occasional sequence ..... and sometimes dubious sequences. So the lack of mammal fossils in creationism is nothing compared to the evolutionary lack.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 642 by jar, posted 11-06-2016 7:52 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 654 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-06-2016 10:10 AM mindspawn has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 652 of 1163 (793819)
11-06-2016 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 642 by jar
11-06-2016 7:52 AM


Re: More amazing sorting
You say: "And yet another totally unsupported assertion. There is no evidence of an Ark or any reason that the Ark story explains what was found unless as usually you just make stuff up"
Actually an unusual gathering of a wide variety of earliest mammals in Turkey, would be EXACTLY what one would expect from the ark. Yet the article acts confused why they gathered there in Turkey.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 642 by jar, posted 11-06-2016 7:52 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 657 by jar, posted 11-06-2016 10:14 AM mindspawn has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 653 of 1163 (793821)
11-06-2016 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 649 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 9:51 AM


Re: Pre-flood humans
mindspawn writes:
I already explained that the concentration of humans would naturally be where the bible described them, which is a pre-flood highland area. And to find mammals we would have to look in an area with similar eco-system to today, an area of pre-flood angiosperms. This area is in Siberia.
Well no, you have not explained anything.
The Bible flood myths do not say that the concentration of humans was in some pre-flood (or even post flood) highland area or why we should look in Siberia or that pre and post flood highland areas were different.
BUT guess what, the Bible flood stories say that there were humans right there in the middle east, that the imaginary flood covered the mountains, that there were mammals right there in River City yet no evidence of any mammals including humans has ever been found below the P/T boundary.
But wait...there's more. The Siberian Traps cover only part of Siberia. And much of Siberia has been searched and while lots of evidence of pre-P/T boundary life has been found there, no evidence of any pre-P/T boundary mammals has ever been found.
Stupid God; sending a flood when all the bad humans and other mammals that got his panties in a wad were already buried by lava flows.
Stupid God.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 654 of 1163 (793822)
11-06-2016 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 651 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 9:58 AM


Re: Pre-flood mammals
Like I explained in my previous post, pre-flood mammals would be found in a rare pre-flood environment conducive to mammals. One would look in the same place one finds pre-flood angiosperm fossils. ie Siberia.
And one would not find any.
Obviously mammals would not be found in those wet flood vulnerable areas suited to amphibians.
And nor apparently would crocodiles, because jeez, whoever heard of a crocodile living in a swamp?
The theory of evolution is missing a lot more fossils than just mammals. You are missing nearly EVERY fossil. The ones found are only a tiny tip of the iceberg of fossils that should exist because you should be able to show a transition for EVERY creature that exists.
Only if every species had been (a) fossilized and (b) discovered by us by 2016.
Yet you just have the occasional sequence ..... and sometimes dubious sequences. So the lack of mammal fossils in creationism is nothing compared to the evolutionary lack.
Well, given that we have lots of intermediate forms and that you have no Paleozoic mammals ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 651 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 9:58 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 659 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 10:25 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 655 of 1163 (793823)
11-06-2016 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 650 by Coyote
11-06-2016 9:55 AM


Re: Haplogroups
"You get less and less variation the further you go from Africa," said Marcus Feldman, an evolutionary biologist at Stanford University in California and a study co-author.
This Marcus Feldman obviously has not looked at the haplogroup map. You actually get less and less variety the more you go out from the Middle East. That is the fact of the haplogroup map. So he is incorrect. As usual scientists have all the evidence at their fingertips and then interpret it incorrectly.
http://www.madsci.org/...rchives/2007-03/1174412643.Ge.1.jpg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 650 by Coyote, posted 11-06-2016 9:55 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 668 by Coyote, posted 11-06-2016 11:13 AM mindspawn has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 656 of 1163 (793824)
11-06-2016 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 623 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 3:02 AM


Re: More amazing sorting
You keep up bringing up OOPARTS but present nothing to back your claims. Just assertion after assertion.
You claim that scientists ignore them because they don't want to be ostracized. But scientists have looked at them and have found the evidence lacking. Present evidence to back your claim about why scientists don't support you. Some scientist must have told you this or else you would just be pulling arguments out of your ass. You wouldn't do that would you?
Present your artifacts and we will review them. Look at the evidence and determine where the evidence leads.
I hope they are a higher class than your claim the Narmer tablet represents actual dinosaurs.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 623 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 3:02 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 657 of 1163 (793825)
11-06-2016 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 652 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 10:01 AM


Re: More amazing sorting
mindspawn writes:
Actually an unusual gathering of a wide variety of earliest mammals in Turkey, would be EXACTLY what one would expect from the ark. Yet the article acts confused why they gathered there in Turkey.
Have you ever read the Bible? I know most Biblical Christians don't seem to have read any of it but I always hope.
Genesis 6 writes:
20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
According to the Bible myth TWO of every kind would come, not whole herds of critters.
But maybe God did not know how to count?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 10:01 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 665 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 10:44 AM jar has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 658 of 1163 (793826)
11-06-2016 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 627 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 3:51 AM


Re: Stromatolites
I did edit my post as I studied more on stromatolites
You are presenting arguments on the formation of stromatolites and you are just studying up on them now? Maybe you should acknowledge that you are a bit put of your field of expertise.
The hubris is astounding.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 3:51 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 661 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 10:28 AM Theodoric has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 659 of 1163 (793827)
11-06-2016 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 654 by Dr Adequate
11-06-2016 10:10 AM


Re: Pre-flood mammals
You say: "Only if every species had been (a) fossilized and (b) discovered by us by 2016."
lol.... not very strong supporting evidence. Do you know how many fossils you are missing?? You need transitions to explain the sudden appearance of nearly every major phyla in the Cambrian Explosion. Which obviously points to creation. Not only that..... at least creationism has a valid theory of origin.
Yet abiogenesis is a theoretical impossibility because of the need for multiple opposing environments in the same spot at the same time to create life. There is not even a hypothesis that is fitting for such a situation, yet many evolutionists would rather embrace the mythical impossibility of abiogenesis than admit to the Cambrian Explosion's obvious evidence for creation.
And yet you attempt to discredit creationism for some missing fossils??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-06-2016 10:10 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 660 of 1163 (793828)
11-06-2016 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 648 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 9:46 AM


Re: Narmer Tablets
It takes a free thinker
You present yourself as a freethinker? You really should learn what the word means. I do love your gish gallop and how you hand wave away all arguments.
But always the academic mind should consider the alternatives and truly weigh up the core evidence for a view.
An academic mind should follow the evidence where ever it goes. You sir are incapable of that. Everything for you leads to the bible. All data is used to construct evidence for a biblical view. You will consider nothing else. That defines a closed mind. Do not insult others by claiming an open mind or assuming the mantle of a freethinker.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 9:46 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 663 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 10:41 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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