Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,824 Year: 4,081/9,624 Month: 952/974 Week: 279/286 Day: 0/40 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 281 of 892 (793888)
11-06-2016 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Percy
11-06-2016 4:45 PM


Re: Well, I did my part
I have a theory explaining Trump's Republican support: Get him elected, get him impeached and convicted (shouldn't take long for him to commit an impeachable offense), then inaugurate Mike Pence and voil, the country has a Republican president who isn't stark raving mad.
A nice theory. But my guess is that is too intricate and well thought to ever be a viable strategy from the GOP side. I think the more likely scenario is that Republicans are far too brainwashed at this stage to vote for anything other than a Republican. It's almost becoming a cult if it isn't one already.
And speaking of impeachments, so much for their plans of trying to gather impeachment steam against Hillary for her emails:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...c0-7be8f848c492_story.html
quote:
FBI Director James B. Comey said Sunday that the bureau had completed its examination of newly discovered emails connected to Hillary Clinton an inquiry that had roiled the presidential race for nine days and found nothing to alter its months-old decision not to seek charges against the former secretary of state for her use of a private email server.
Nice head fake by the head of the FBI. Almost like a Keystone Cops routine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Percy, posted 11-06-2016 4:45 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by NoNukes, posted 11-06-2016 11:00 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(3)
Message 299 of 892 (793972)
11-07-2016 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Taq
11-07-2016 1:36 PM


Re: Can the Republican Party Recover?
Bill Maher happened to make a really interesting observation. This is perhaps the first race in the modern era where neither candidate felt the need to tout their religious beliefs and affiliations. No debate question has asked how their religious faith will influence how they govern. No one has made the claim that God told them to run for office. There has hardly been a peep about the religious beliefs of either candidate.
Are we moving away from religiously driven politics? Are evangelical voters making up a smaller and smaller percentage of the populace? Will the influx of Hispanic Catholics change historic US culture that has been dominated by Protestantism?
I watched that episode of the Bill Maher show, and what Bill stipulated is not necessarily that there is less religiously driven politics, its that religious fundies are gigantic hypocrites.
What it ultimately comes down to is this: the far right religious fringe in the Republican party may tout their religious beliefs. But in the end, their 'beliefs' are just a cherry-picked subset of what is stated in the bible. These folks are actually GOP-zealots, not Christians, despite their attempt to label themselves otherwise.
When you look at some of their core beliefs:
- Being anti-tax
- Being pro death penalty
- Being pro-war
- Being anti-gay
- Being pro-gun
How precisely are these Christian values in any way? The answer is they are not. Most of these knuckle-draggers don't even understand their own bible or have read it. They are just Pavlovian dogs salivating when someone says something they like. The 'ditto-heads' that make up Rush Limbaugh's audience is a great example.
None of these folks bother to research the facts. None will voice contrary opinions against what the Republican party is stating. In the end, they are just beholden to the rhetoric. That's it.
Trump does not espouse any Christian values. Yet he has evangelicals flocking to him in droves. And why? Because it was NEVER about Christian values. That is a smoke screen. It was always about a bunch of angry, minimally educated, white (mostly men) who spend their day being pissed at something or someone. Republicans fueled these fires of discontent by spewing rhetoric. That rhetoric eventually manifested into the monster that is now Trump.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Taq, posted 11-07-2016 1:36 PM Taq has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 337 of 892 (794053)
11-09-2016 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by RAZD
11-09-2016 4:30 AM


Re: The Clinton Failure
That is not because of Bernie or third party supporters, it is because, like Gore, she failed to draw voters to the polls: more people did not vote than voted for third parties, AGAIN. Lesson not learned.
I have to echo RAZD here. I mentioned this in an earlier post, but I still believe that Hillary not choosing Bernie as her VP pick was a huge mistake. She decided to try to think tactically (i.e. Virginia) rather than thinking pragmatically. In the same way Trump energized his constituency, Bernie had the same effect. But instead, she gave us Tim Kaine, a guy who looks like he just farted and is smirking at the odor he has produced.
But the big takeaway here is the Democratic party grossly underestimating how disenfranchised people in the rust belt have been feeling for a long time now. They watched their net worth evaporate as jobs were shipped overseas. And to add insult to injury, many got devastated in the wake of the financial crisis.
The Democrats were supposed to be the party of the middle class. But in the end, they just became a reflection of the Republicans by placating to the same Wall Street assholes that have caused the last few booms and busts we have seen.
One little sidebar: if I was an incumbent politician in Germany or France, I would be shitting my pants right now. Between our election and Brexit, there is now a ground swell of populism sweeping through the world. Merkel is not doing well in Germany and the far right party in France is gaining ground. The results of Brexit and our election could be just the catalyst they need to sweep into victory.
Marine Le Pen has already started to use this outcome to bolster her chances. Now everyone will say there is 'no chance' of her winning. Well, we said that about Brexit. We said that about Trump. Is anything not possible at this stage?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by RAZD, posted 11-09-2016 4:30 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by Taq, posted 11-09-2016 10:51 AM Diomedes has not replied
 Message 347 by caffeine, posted 11-09-2016 11:05 AM Diomedes has not replied
 Message 348 by Phat, posted 11-09-2016 11:18 AM Diomedes has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 382 of 892 (794125)
11-10-2016 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 376 by RAZD
11-10-2016 8:35 AM


Re: The Clinton mistakes
I was against Clinton in 2008, but not because of her vote. I was against her, because she was still defending that vote when should have been obvious by then that her vote was a mistake.
Exactly. She didn't really acknowledge it was a mistake until she was debating Bernie.
Ironically, that was Jeb's big problem. Despite the fact that he knew the decision to go to Iraq would come up and bring to light his idiot brother's moronic mistakes, he kept fumbling on the answer.
Pertaining to Hillary, after I saw the election outcome and the data pertaining to voter turnout, I am more convinced than ever that her biggest error was not making Bernie her VP. My guess is being that she is an egomaniac, like most politicians, she opted to not share the spotlight with her opponent. Regardless of how much appeal he had to his base.
Just as a sidebar, in my area of Florida, there were tons of Trump signs just prior to the election. But during the primaries, the most signs I saw were Bernie signs. There were 'Feel the Bern' banners on highway overpasses. He had massive appeal. And Hillary just completely squandered that.
My suspicion in the end is she just grossly underestimated both Bernie's appeal and Trumps.
Now she may still have won the election without Bernie had the FBI snafu not manifested. Along with the DNC hacks. But regardless, she decided to play the 'safe' game and assume that voters would just come to her because Trump was so repugnant. I think in a way, she neglected to realize she shared many of the same character flaws. So it almost became a wash between the two of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by RAZD, posted 11-10-2016 8:35 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 422 of 892 (794303)
11-14-2016 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 420 by Percy
11-14-2016 8:03 AM


Re: This too shall pass
For instance, what will be the fate of the Affordable Care Act? Trump has said he'd like to keep only a couple parts of it, most significantly the part where insurance companies cannot exclude people for pre-existing conditions. But it's this clause that is causing so many insurance companies to withdraw from participation, because people can wait until they get sick before signing up. In those states that don't allow insurance companies to charge premiums commensurate with the pre-existing condition, insurance companies are withdrawing.
Which is why the mandate to buy insurance was necessary. So it ultimately makes no sense to remove the mandate but keep the pre-existing condition clause intact.
I honestly don't think the Republicans have a clue about the actual mechanics going on here. It was just political theater for them to make grandiose claims about how bad Obamacare is, but they have absolutely no sense of what to actually do to fix it. Unless their endgame is to simple make it worse to the point where it is totally non-viable and then repeal it. I wouldn't put that past them.
I think ultimately, if one wants a stop-gap fix, the mandate and the pre-existing condition clauses should stay, but they can adjust the actual policies to allow for cheaper types of insurance to be purchased. One of the things that Obamacare did was mandate that insurance companies have all types of things included in their policies, including preventative care testing and so forth. While this is generally a good idea, it caused premiums for many to skyrocket since someone who may have bought a cheaper plan that only covered emergency type care and had a higher deductible, but was a lot cheaper on a monthly basis.
Obviously, a lot of those 'bargain basement' policies also had issues as well. But something is better than nothing. And that may incentivize young people to purchase insurance if they can get a plan that is cheaper than the penalty. Even if it doesn't provide the best coverage. But at this stage, that may be the only alternative. The Republicans certainly aren't going to be passing universal healthcare anytime soon.
Or maybe Trump has a plan to get Mexico to pay for our healthcare. They are paying for his YUGE wall afterall. Maybe they are feeling generous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by Percy, posted 11-14-2016 8:03 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 426 by Percy, posted 11-15-2016 8:33 AM Diomedes has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 428 of 892 (794414)
11-15-2016 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 426 by Percy
11-15-2016 8:33 AM


Re: This too shall pass
I'm against mandating the purchase of insurance. I'm also against the penalty.
I'm for universal healthcare and for everybody paying for everybody's healthcare. That means funding it out of taxes (both personal and business) and have the government pay.
So am I. Problem is, that is not feasible, especially in the wake of the current political climate and the fact that the Republicans control the House, the Senate and the Presidency. So what I posited is what I consider the 'best case scenario' in light of the circumstances.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by Percy, posted 11-15-2016 8:33 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024