Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Republican Healthcare Plan
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 46 of 187 (794508)
11-16-2016 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2016 3:25 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
cut the peoples' taxes and give them the money
The people who can't afford insurance without subsidies won't get any of that. Many of them pay no Federal income tax so tax rates are irrelevant, and the proposed tax cuts will reduce the payment by those who do pay tax by about 1%.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2016 3:25 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 47 of 187 (794509)
11-16-2016 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by JonF
11-16-2016 3:52 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Does it? If state X has more regulations than state Y, then does state Y really have to accept State X's stuff?
Yes.
What legislation forces them to accept it?
It's now legal for states to allow out-of-state insurance. Some do.
It's not saying that it's illegal, just that it's inhibited. And how many do? 10%?
The only way to change the situation Federally is to make it mandatory on all states.
Or, as the plan says, modify existing laws that inhibit the sale of health insurance across state lines.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by JonF, posted 11-16-2016 3:52 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by JonF, posted 11-16-2016 4:17 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 187 (794510)
11-16-2016 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by caffeine
11-16-2016 4:10 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
How on earth is that possible? No provider should be allowed to refuse valid insurance. We have a legal concept of legal tender to prevent this kind of extortion,
It is quite common in the US. To find a health care provider in the US the first task is to find one that will accept your payment methods. When you do the payer becomes the client, not the patient. Even Medicare is not universally accepted in the US.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by caffeine, posted 11-16-2016 4:10 PM caffeine has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Theodoric, posted 11-16-2016 4:57 PM jar has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 49 of 187 (794511)
11-16-2016 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2016 3:56 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
The plan is to have the insurance premiums be deducted from your taxes and the contributions to the HSA be tax-free
I know and suspect others do too.
If you pay no Federal income tax where do the premiums come from?
If you desperately want to contribute to an HSA but have nothing left after food, housing, and clothing what do you do?
Do you think there are ignorably few people with those problems?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2016 3:56 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 50 of 187 (794512)
11-16-2016 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2016 4:13 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Ok, what laws inhibit sale of insurance across state lines and what side effects will getting rid of them have?
Will anyone do anything to make the economics more favorable?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2016 4:13 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Taq, posted 11-16-2016 6:39 PM JonF has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 187 (794515)
11-16-2016 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by JonF
11-16-2016 4:06 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Medicare is much more efficient than many duplicated bureaucracies in private hands.
I suppose I'll have to take your word for it.
And it has purchasing leverage no private company has.
And still, it requires supplemental insurance...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by JonF, posted 11-16-2016 4:06 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Theodoric, posted 11-16-2016 5:01 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied
 Message 86 by JonF, posted 11-17-2016 8:10 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 52 of 187 (794516)
11-16-2016 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by jar
11-16-2016 4:10 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Is the plan to allow deducting insurance premiums from income tax? If so that is an annual event. You do not get the money before the fact, the government gets to hold your money for a year.
Change your W-4 so they don't get the money first.
Second, to contribute to any HSA you must first have disposable income that can be allocated to that instead of rent or food or clothes for the kids or all of the other expenses real people face.
Use that money that you're not giving to Feds up front for taxes.
What if the insurance premiums are due monthly while any tax refund comes in annually?
Reduce what you pay up front so you don't have to wait to get a return.
What if there is no disposable income to set aside for an HSA?
The tax deduction will provide some additional income, but you may want to change your spending habits. Or if you have to, get on Medicaid.
How should the government make up for lost revenues created by additional deductions?
Spend less.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 11-16-2016 4:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by jar, posted 11-16-2016 4:58 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 187 (794517)
11-16-2016 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by caffeine
11-16-2016 4:10 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
How on earth is that possible? No provider should be allowed to refuse valid insurance.
Some insurance companies simply don't pay their bills. Doctors/Hospitals then stop accepting that insurance.
Perhaps no insurers should be allowed to refuse to pay their bills.
Stop and think for a minute before spouting obviously false ideological slogans. We're discussing the US healthcare system, where everything costs a lot more than the UK's state run healthcare system.
I dunno, maybe the UK government is better than ours.
Have you ever worked with the US government?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by caffeine, posted 11-16-2016 4:10 PM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by caffeine, posted 11-16-2016 4:43 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 11-16-2016 6:44 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(2)
Message 54 of 187 (794518)
11-16-2016 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2016 4:35 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Some insurance companies simply don't pay their bills. Doctors/Hospitals then stop accepting that insurance.
Perhaps no insurers should be allowed to refuse to pay their bills.
That would also be a good idea. Are there not legal requirements in order to be a provider of government-mandated health insurance?
I dunno, maybe the UK government is better than ours.
Have you ever worked with the US government?
Ah - the bizarre inverse of the US exceptionalism argument. 'It may work everywhere else, but the US is uniquely incompetent'. I'm not convinced.
Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2016 4:35 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2016 4:53 PM caffeine has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 55 of 187 (794519)
11-16-2016 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2016 3:25 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Most of these people are already at 0 federal taxes.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2016 3:25 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2016 4:48 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 56 of 187 (794520)
11-16-2016 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2016 3:58 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Bullshit. It removes the profit motive. Do you have data to back up your assertion?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2016 3:58 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 187 (794521)
11-16-2016 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Theodoric
11-16-2016 4:45 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Do you have data to back up your assertion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Theodoric, posted 11-16-2016 4:45 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Theodoric, posted 11-16-2016 5:02 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 187 (794522)
11-16-2016 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by caffeine
11-16-2016 4:43 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Are there not legal requirements in order to be a provider of government-mandated health insurance?
There are, but I don't see that any of them mention paying your bills. It's all about what you have to provide to the consumer rather than what you have to do for the provider.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by caffeine, posted 11-16-2016 4:43 PM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by caffeine, posted 11-16-2016 4:59 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 59 of 187 (794523)
11-16-2016 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
11-16-2016 4:14 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
God forbid you need dental work and don't have employer based insurance. In our area the wait time for new patients at the only clinic that takes Medical assistance or subsidized insurance is one year. 3-4 months for existing patients.
ABE
I know this is a fact because my wife is the medical director and we send our low income friends that way. I also have a disabled son that is on MA and he goes to that clinic. My time frames are based on actual data.
Edited by Theodoric, : Add data

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 11-16-2016 4:14 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 60 of 187 (794524)
11-16-2016 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2016 4:31 PM


Re: Try reading what Trump said it has been on his website since March
Or if you have to, get on Medicaid.
What if you cannot qualify for Medicaid or most other benefits?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2016 4:31 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024