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Author
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Topic: Addiction By Definition
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 72 of 331 (792641)
10-12-2016 11:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
10-11-2016 11:13 PM
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Re: Day 85 and glad to be alive
Phat writes: Being in touch with your feelings allows you to face fear, for example. Anxiety is harder to face since it cannot be defined.
So you're afraid of falling back into addiction because you know about the consequences. Are you anxious too?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by Phat, posted 10-11-2016 11:13 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 73 by Phat, posted 10-12-2016 2:51 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 76 of 331 (792710)
10-13-2016 11:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 73 by Phat
10-12-2016 2:51 PM
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Re: Day 85 and glad to be alive
Phat writes: No. I am anxious when addicted. I am fearful when sober. Perhaps knowing that it is a concrete emotion I am facing helps me to stay sober.
I'm glad you can tell the difference. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by Phat, posted 10-12-2016 2:51 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 91 of 331 (793675)
11-03-2016 11:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
11-02-2016 7:23 PM
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Re: Day 107 and feeling feisty
Phat writes: One Pastor challenged me---do I trust God or science?
I trust my neighbours but I lock my doors.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 90 by Phat, posted 11-02-2016 7:23 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 96 by Phat, posted 11-12-2016 3:19 AM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 98 by Phat, posted 11-23-2016 11:42 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 99 of 331 (794742)
11-23-2016 2:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
11-23-2016 11:42 AM
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Re: Day 129
Phat writes: Not every spirit out there is our neighbor.
Check the parable of the Good Samaritan again. My neighbour might be my worst enemy but then again I might need him some day, or he might need me.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by Phat, posted 11-23-2016 11:42 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 184 of 331 (811750)
06-11-2017 2:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 180 by Phat
06-10-2017 5:24 PM
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Re: Day 328. Staring In The Mirror
Phat writes: I have personally found that the addiction does get channeled into other directions. I still battle obsessive thoughts and behaviors in areas unrelated to gambling.
I think we all have such thoughts whether we call them "addictions" or not. (Some might call it Original Sin). The best we can hope for is to be able to channel them in less damaging directions.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 5:24 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 187 by Phat, posted 06-13-2017 8:23 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 193 of 331 (811927)
06-13-2017 11:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 187 by Phat
06-13-2017 8:23 AM
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Re: Day 328. Staring In The Mirror
Phat writes: MRI scans may show a different story though. In other words, of course we love our chosen habits but we do not get to label them addictive or not.
Well, you're the one who's labelling yourself as an addict. Have you had the MRI? Personally, I'm a bit skeptical about the ability of an MRI to draw a hard line between "addiction" and "not addiction".
Phat writes: The goal, in my mind, is to overcome the need to be obsessive/compulsive about anything and to be overall more rational, calm, and mindful.
Sorry, but I don't think that's possible. "The fall" is nonsense, of course, but we are all "fallen" in the sense that we're not perfect. We can get better but we can't get perfect. I don't think we can ever remove every vestige of addiction (any of us, MRI or not).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 187 by Phat, posted 06-13-2017 8:23 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 229 of 331 (849676)
03-17-2019 3:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 228 by Phat
03-17-2019 2:50 PM
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Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Explain.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 228 by Phat, posted 03-17-2019 2:50 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 230 by Phat, posted 03-18-2019 7:15 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 232 of 331 (849697)
03-18-2019 11:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 230 by Phat
03-18-2019 7:15 AM
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Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes: If you bothered to read my link, you would have found that it is only rational and animal.
I know your link says that. I'm asking why you swallow it hook, line and sinker and consider everything else "nonsense".
Phat writes: You prefer to call it good rational and bad rational...
Are you under the impression that rationality is 100% reliable and can never be misused?
Phat writes: ... but there is nothing rational about being driven by emotions and hunger if they, in fact, are bad for you.
I'm talking about how we use rationality to respond to those situations.
Phat writes: The rational brain is a good wolf. The animal brain is the bad wolf. Comments?
Good and bad are not black and white. There are a lot of gray wolves in between.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 230 by Phat, posted 03-18-2019 7:15 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 235 of 331 (849816)
03-22-2019 11:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 233 by Phat
03-21-2019 2:54 PM
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Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes: Cigarette smoking is not rational. Nor is excessive drinking. My rational mind knows these things. Even drinkers who have no problem know their limits and the rationally minded ones never get too drunk.
And yet people do smoke and drink too much. Their rational minds know it isn't good for them but they do it anyway. Often they even use their rational minds to rationalize their irrational behaviour.
Phat writes: I believe that rationality is a learning process.
In the case of addiction, I don't think so.
Phat writes: The issue is whether your rational mind recognizes your own bad habits and informs you when you've gone too far.
And then you smoke or drink or gamble anyway.
Phat writes: The RR people would argue that we talk ourselves out of rationality at times.
That's what I'm saying. Why is it "nonsense" when I say it?
Phat writes: Choose your addictions wisely.
If we could choose our addictions, they wouldn't be addictions.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 233 by Phat, posted 03-21-2019 2:54 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 236 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 11:58 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 237 of 331 (849820)
03-22-2019 12:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 236 by Phat
03-22-2019 11:58 AM
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Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes: The animal brain, known in parlance as "The Beast" is the voice that cons yourself into allowing yourself to overindulge.
I don't think that's true. "The voice" is a product of the rational mind. Especially in an addiction like gambling, it's the rational mind that tells us what we can do with our winnings. I don't think the "animal brain" can anticipate such things.
Phat writes: ringo writes: That's what I'm saying. Why is it "nonsense" when I say it?
Because you always like to have the last word in an argument.
Non sequitur.
Phat writes: I feel offended at times that you try to win every argument.
Would you feel better if I tried to lose? I could lose by going inactive like Faith. We could make EvC your personal blog where nobody ever disagrees with you.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 236 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 11:58 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 238 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 9:08 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 239 of 331 (849853)
03-23-2019 12:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 238 by Phat
03-22-2019 9:08 PM
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Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes: the rational mind allows itself to let the reptillian brain pleasure the body.
That's exactly my point. The rational mind is on both sides.
Phat writes: ringo writes: Non sequitur.
Not every conclusion nor action of a rational person (or otherwise) is logical. Some actions are emotional and downright reptillian. The key is to recognize this fact and to determine which brain it comes from. Obviously both function together.
That's not a reply to what you quoted.
Phat writes: I would argue, however, that for someone caught in the throes of an addiction, the issue is very much black and white. The brain pattern is abberent. The behavior is unproductive. The issue becomes life or death.
We're not talking about the addict's perspective. We're looking at it from outside.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 238 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 9:08 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 240 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 3:40 PM | | ringo has replied | | | Message 241 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 3:48 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 242 of 331 (849890)
03-24-2019 2:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 240 by Phat
03-23-2019 3:40 PM
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Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes: Whenever anyone says that "the devil made me do it" they really mean to say that they themselves allowed the reptillian brain to override the rational mind.
This is not rocket science. If the rational mind can override the repltillian brain - or not - then the rational mind is of two minds.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 240 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 3:40 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 243 of 331 (849891)
03-24-2019 2:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 241 by Phat
03-23-2019 3:48 PM
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Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes: ringo writes: We're not talking about the addict's perspective. We're looking at it from outside.
We? *Looks Around* There is only I in the room.
If that was true, you'd be talking to yourself. Since you're not, don't try to be cute.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 241 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 3:48 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 245 by Phat, posted 03-26-2019 12:40 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 246 of 331 (849941)
03-26-2019 12:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 245 by Phat
03-26-2019 12:40 PM
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Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes: The question is whether my rational mind adopts the role of I or whether my addictive voice seizes "it" as another easy cure.
The problem is that your rational mind has two opinions - it may or may not listen to your addictive voice.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 245 by Phat, posted 03-26-2019 12:40 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 247 by Phat, posted 03-26-2019 12:58 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 702 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 248 of 331 (849944)
03-26-2019 1:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 247 by Phat
03-26-2019 12:58 PM
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Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes: I believe that you meant to say options rather than opinions.
Either way will do.
Phat writes: My rational mind has but one opinion.
I hope that isn't true. A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 247 by Phat, posted 03-26-2019 12:58 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 249 by Phat, posted 03-26-2019 1:53 PM | | ringo has replied |
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