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Author Topic:   Why did we stop inventing gods?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 8 of 203 (789369)
08-14-2016 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-13-2016 11:48 AM


Well the best time to invent your god is before large civilisations develop. That way you can almost have one per family. Maybe village. What you need is isolation and ignorance if you want lots.
If you can create an empire you can declare as many or as few of the adopted gods as you like. You can even make yourself into one if you wield enough power.
Education, democracy, science and communication have done away with the need and possibility of too many new gods arriving and developing, although of course new cults spring up and subside all the time.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 08-13-2016 11:48 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 10:01 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 25 by Coyote, posted 08-14-2016 10:09 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 92 of 203 (789544)
08-16-2016 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
08-16-2016 12:12 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat writes:
......but the new nature seemingly generates from nowhere.
It doesn't generate from nowhere Phat, they're both examples of the same addictive behaviour.
quote:
The difference is that unbelievers try their hardest to be good under their own merits and will, whereas believers are transformed by the renewing of their minds...something an unbeliever won't experience.
Steady boy, unbelievers do not 'try their hardest to be good' they exhibit a wide range of behaviours and I doubt they struggle with any of them - they're just dispositions. I certainly don't have to try 'to be good' - it's simply a matter of not doing harm which I find very difficult to do, so I don't do it.
As for not experiencing a 'renewal of my mind' - absolutely no thanks, I don't want anyone dicking with my head except me.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 12:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 5:56 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 114 of 203 (789578)
08-16-2016 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
08-16-2016 5:56 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat writes:
Applying it is another.
You're head is stuffed full of misconceptions Phat. If you believe it, you apply it. There's no choice. Are you suggesting that when I believed it, I didn't? If so why?
Perhaps they dont have special knowledge, but I would argue that many get insights that you or I might not yet understand.
You can't argue that can you? All you can do is assert it and hope. You have absolutely nothing else.
And of course, you've accidentally asserted that those that think that the whole thing is a pile of horseshit also have special knowledge.
What you and your chums fail o realize is that God is living and active...as is the Word.
Well yes, obviously. 'Cos if he was living and active it's likely we'd all notice, not just those that, well, best left unsaid.
Of course, you insist on evidence, as if the evidence isnt evident already. I can't convince you...thats for sure.
But if the evidence was evident you wouldn't have to convince me would you? You know, it's not like I'm Faith and impervious to evidence. I live and breathe evidence, I will change my mind. I don't have a book that makes sure that I can't.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 5:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 08-17-2016 12:39 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 117 of 203 (789656)
08-17-2016 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
08-17-2016 12:39 PM


Re: Conning Vince
Phat writes:
You likely saw no evidence. Being a man of reason...logic reason and reality were something tangible to you...so you changed your worldview.
No Phat, no. I fully believed just like you - then I didn't. Please don't overthink this.
Again, yes I do. I have had personal experience. You may claim that you did also, but I doubt it. Not at the level I had, at any rate.
You have no idea what I felt, nor I you, so you'd be advised not to make assumptions.
Secondly, i've worked with seriously mentally ill people and am very aware of what people are capable of experiencing in their minds. I'm not saying that you or anyone else is mentally ill, I'm making the point that our minds are capable of fooling us all the time. If you've ever studied anything about what our mind can do, you'll know that it can't be trusted. The vast majority of its work is to prevent 'us' - our conscious selves - from getting in its way.
You have already convinced yourself that God does not exist, so I would have to unconvince you...which it is doubtful I can do.
Of course you can - just provide the evidence. Real eveidence. Evidence of what is going on in your or anyone else's head is not useful, I have met three Jesus's, one Hitler and one Prince of Wales. We can very easily fool ourselves in far less dramatic matters.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 08-17-2016 12:39 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 138 of 203 (791056)
09-09-2016 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by mike the wiz
09-09-2016 2:51 PM


MtW writes:
Even if people did invent gods, this tells us nothing of His existence
Well, it tells us that people invent gods doesn't it? So knowing that there are thousands and thousands of gods, most of which are long forgotten, it asks the question of YOUR god. What's so special about yours? If I did 1000 purchases on eBay all of which turned out to be a rip-off, how reasonable is it believe the next one would be legit? Particularly as you have absolutely no more evidence than the guy who believed in the thunder god.
In the same way it would be like me arguing that Darwin was a racist, so we have to deny evolution-theory, which would be absurd,
Er yes, it would be absurd. And irrelevant.
Obviously if God does exist, His existence would precede the invention of false gods.
Which is, of course, also irrelevant.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by mike the wiz, posted 09-09-2016 2:51 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 158 of 203 (791298)
09-14-2016 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Phat
09-14-2016 3:09 AM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Phat writes:
What is the go[o]d in you doing for humanity?
You can't be asking what is the good in doing good for it's own sake surely?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 3:09 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 8:46 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 190 of 203 (794674)
11-19-2016 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Phat
11-19-2016 9:55 AM


Re: 1 issue at a time. I have a question for you GIA (based on a sentence of yours)
quote:
When the truth is revealed fully to humanity, the scientific rational mind will be thoroughly blown away.
  —Phat
Yeh, the zealots have being saying such things for thousands of years. The fact that it never ever happens is one of the reasons people are no longer believing this stuff.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Phat, posted 11-19-2016 9:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Phat, posted 11-28-2016 12:51 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 195 of 203 (794825)
11-28-2016 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Phat
11-28-2016 12:51 PM


Re: Ripleys Believe It or Not
Phat writes:
The fact that it never ever happens is one of the reasons people are no longer believing this stuff.
Ok.
The main reason that people no longer believe this stuff is because there are many more rational reasons not to believe.
Ok
Logic and rationality will be the last to believe.
Belief is the pre requisite---and it logically makes little sense.
In as much as I understand this, Ok.
I believe that there is and will be a rational reason to believe.
Well this makes no sense at all does it?
Belief in the face of strong negative evidence is not rational - never can be, never will be. You're just hoping that what you believe is true, you need it to be true. You spend very large quantities of your life counting angels on pin heads and praying for it to be true. It's such a waste of your energy and life. You'd be far better off just behaving like a decent person and getting on with it.
Call me crazy.
No, not crazy, just deluded and conned.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Phat, posted 11-28-2016 12:51 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 11-28-2016 6:55 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 197 of 203 (794832)
11-29-2016 4:04 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
11-28-2016 6:55 PM


Re: Ripleys Believe It or Not
Phat writes:
I believe that I have found a rational reason in Jesus Christ.
You've found an emotional reason to believe - if it was rational, you wouldn't need to believe it, it would simply be a fact that you could demonstrate to others.
Do you have any negative evidence to present to me?
Of course, there's vast quantities of it, it's been discussed here ad nausium but you just shrug it off and get on with micro-analysing biblical passages.
You even have the evidence of your own personal circumstances - why is your loving father treating you so badly?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 11-28-2016 6:55 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 11-29-2016 7:01 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 199 of 203 (794838)
11-29-2016 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Phat
11-29-2016 7:01 AM


Re: Ripleys Believe It or Not
Phat writes:
why should i worry about how I am being treated?
Why the hell wouldn't you???
Why not just treat others better ?
Why not indeed? (You can do both you know.)
I think I'm my own worst enemy at times. If I listened to my father I would fare better.
What exactly does this father tell you?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 11-29-2016 7:01 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Phat, posted 11-30-2016 1:31 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 201 of 203 (794872)
11-30-2016 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Phat
11-30-2016 1:31 PM


Re: Ripleys Believe It or Not
Phat writes:
Seems our argument is now focused on the concept of fate.
No, nothing that intangible. You said why should you worry how god was treating you, I said why on earth wouldn't you?
If you think that god is treating you badly, that should be a source of high anxiety. It's also a proof that your loving god isn't a loving god.
Perhaps you hold to the view that if a God exists, He has the responsibility to micromanage determinism.
No. If he's god he can do wtf he wants - including totally ignoring us.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Phat, posted 11-30-2016 1:31 PM Phat has not replied

  
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