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Author Topic:   Why did we stop inventing gods?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 161 of 203 (791330)
09-14-2016 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Phat
09-14-2016 3:09 AM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Phat
"yes but in the big picture what difference are you making by spending so much time starting so many blogs to discuss this?"
Are you not familiar with the Abrahamic religions?
Has Christianity and Islam not grown their religions by the sword instead of good deeds?
Yes they have, so why are you showing such immoral religions respect?
------
"Are you actually doing anything for people?"
I do my part and you can see the results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
What do you see your god doing except nothing?
-----
"Do you feed,clothe,or encourage anyone?"
Yes on all counts, especially showing neophytes how immoral the Abrahamic cults are.
Why are you promoting immoral religions?
------
" There will always be people who worship something you disagree with, but if God is not real what difference does it make? What is the god in you doing for humanity?"
Correcting stupid and immoral thinking by those who have lost their common sense and logic to the supernatural and fantasy.
Why do you promote what is not real and demonstrably immoral?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 3:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 162 of 203 (791331)
09-14-2016 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Phat
09-14-2016 8:46 AM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Phat
GIA, however, has stated that humans are the "only god there is"
True as that is a truth. God as defined as the best rules and laws to live by. Have you not noticed how we human gods have bested most of bible gods rules?
Would you like to live under your gods rules?
------
"and then talks about God as an evil tyrant for killing Jesus. How silly is that?"
Do you think it good for Father to have his son murdered to satisfy his own wrath?
As you step up to ride your scapegoat Jesus in to heaven, remember -
As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 8:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 163 of 203 (791332)
09-14-2016 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by NoNukes
09-14-2016 11:20 AM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
NoNukes
If not for lies and un-provable faith statements, Christians and Muslims would have almost nothing to say.
All priests and imams do constantly is make such statements as truth and those are lies.
Only fools will say there is a supernatural god while thinking that people who recognize truth will not think they are liars.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2016 11:20 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2016 2:59 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 165 of 203 (791374)
09-14-2016 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by NoNukes
09-14-2016 2:59 PM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
NoNukes
"I wonder if you have some way of defending your own beliefs that does not involve instead denigrating the beliefs of others to make yours seem reasonable."
Yes.
I do both as opportunities arise.
You might have noticed that I often compare Gnostic Christian ideology to the Christian one. That is why I concentrate on morals and do not care what else others believe, although I fell it my duty to save as many from delusional and supernatural beliefs that prove to be detrimental to a person's moral positions.
Christians especially have allowed their beliefs to compromise and corrupt their morals. They have developed an immoral double standard where they forgive and love their god even more for the same actions that they condemn men for.
EG: Yahweh is forgiven for genocide while men are condemned for it.
I also see religions as the main cause of many wars and do not like that people give respect to such immoral creeds and ideologies.
------
"Because insulting other folks seems to be the raison d’tre for every bleeping thread you start."
Generally because of their poor thinking.
What you see as insult, I see as correcting as I live by these decent moral tenets.
Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
The religious of the world need the most correcting and that is what I try to do, as gently as possible.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2016 2:59 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 8:14 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 167 of 203 (791376)
09-14-2016 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Phat
09-14-2016 8:14 PM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
Phat
Thanks for the point.
I tried that [qs ] and ended with [qs ] and no quote.
Perhaps an update on the programming would be handy.
"you believe that God is a creation of the human mind. Am I close?"
Yes.
That is not a new idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA
If a god created mankind, and most people are in god's mental image, theists have to explain why they think mankind is so flawed that we had to kill a Jesus type form of god to save us from our creators wrath, when scriptures say the god created us all perfect.
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock,
If the supernatural and fantasy gods are not real then there is only one other source that could create the concept of god and that is man.
Quite easy to understand given Jung and Freud's Father Complex. Our instinctive guide to becoming the fittest of our species.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 09-14-2016 8:14 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by AdminAsgara, posted 09-14-2016 8:43 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 173 by Phat, posted 09-16-2016 6:34 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 169 of 203 (791378)
09-14-2016 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by AdminAsgara
09-14-2016 8:43 PM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
the ending quote tag needs a slash
Thanks. But it did not pick up your name.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by AdminAsgara, posted 09-14-2016 8:43 PM AdminAsgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by AZPaul3, posted 09-14-2016 8:58 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


(2)
Message 171 of 203 (791460)
09-15-2016 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by AZPaul3
09-14-2016 8:58 PM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
AZPaul3 writes:
It does if you do it right.
Thanks.
What a pain in the rump though.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by AZPaul3, posted 09-14-2016 8:58 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 176 of 203 (791541)
09-16-2016 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Phat
09-16-2016 6:26 AM


Re: The GOD Whom Jesus Markets
Phat writes:
I believe He saw himself as Gods son. I believe he knew his Father intimately.
How can a son know his father intimately when that father is a deadbeat dad that abandoned him before birth?
Or is that not the way you see dads that disappear out of their son's lives?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 09-16-2016 6:26 AM Phat has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 177 of 203 (791543)
09-16-2016 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Phat
09-16-2016 6:34 AM


Re: Big Guy please report to the lab...
Phat writes:
One side wants a Father who rescues us from our problems.
The other side wants us to tough it up as we are all spiritual orphans who need to grow and fix our own problems.
If there is a Father with his famous plan, then he creates the problem.
Which side are you on?
Phat writes:
And you still never get past the idea of a "genocidal son murdering God."
Because that view has yet to be refuted.
Are you up to trying to do so?
Phat writes:
The whole point is that you would have been the victim otherwise. Does that make you angry at God?
Your first point is unqualified and un-knowable and I see it as a lie.
If true, then sure I would be angry with your creator god as being a created entity, all I could ever do is follow the nature he put into me.
To punish anyone for being exactly as he created would make your god and immoral prick.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Phat, posted 09-16-2016 6:34 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 181 of 203 (793993)
11-07-2016 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by LamarkNewAge
10-05-2016 5:24 PM


Re: Gratest I am, a video for you.
LamarkNewAge
You asked how I deal with Islamic Gnostics like the Alawites of Syria then.
I view them as just as brain dead as all who believe in the supernatural.
Gnostic Christianity does not have any supernatural beliefs.
We do shoe supernatural situations in our myths, but those myths were written to be used to argue with and against Christ8ians before Christianity became a literalist and idol worshiping cult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&l...
Alawites may hold that Jesus is divine but we do not. Gnostic Christians just see Jesus as that link above shows, as just an archetypal good man.
There may have been an actual Jesus but the one we might embrace is the one who had a wife and kids. We do not believe in a salvific Jesus because we do not think that God would ever condemn his own perfect works.
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect:
You also said that you don't see any evidence to back up your claims but failed to show which claim you were talking about.
----------------------------------------
"(Also, when do you think gnosticism started? How did it get started? What was the flame that flickered it? What king of gnosis/Gnosis was the forger of the Pastoral Epistles referring to?)
I have no idea what king those scriptures speak to.
As to where Gnostic Christianity came from, we cannot know from this far up the time line. I speculate that we were around before Christianity and were know as the Chrestians whose books were usurped by Christian.
Two things lead me to those conclusions.
1. Our Gnostic Christian ideology is closer to Judaism than Christianity and that may be a part of why we wrote our myths to put against Christianity and not against Judaism.
2. Christianity and the bible seem to be a consolidation of many older myths and I think they plagiarized much of their book from what were Chrestian books.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r...
------------------------
my quote:
Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges
Your reply.
But what about this evidence?
The evidence is in analysing what is said of them and their rules.
That is how one determines if someone is moral or not. Right?
Yahweh, for instance is shown to be a genocidal son murderer.
It is not hard to lean on the immoral side for him based just on those two issues.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-05-2016 5:24 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-09-2016 4:25 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 183 of 203 (794098)
11-09-2016 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by LamarkNewAge
11-09-2016 4:25 PM


Re: 1 issue at a time. I have a question for you GIA (based on a sentence of yours)
LamarkNewAge
Apologies. I took it that you would know.
When speaking of our myths, I am speaking mostly of the ones in the Nag Hammadi Library and when I say we, I mean Gnostic Christians.
Nag Hammadi Library
The Gospel of Thomas is the most important of these myths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09tzKUuIgzQ&feature=related
A thing to remember while reading them is that they were created for debate against other supernatural myths and that is why the old Gnostic Christians took liberties with the supernatural.
This saying shows that we did not believe anything of the supernatural.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand. That is an irrefutable statement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOGEyBeoBGM&feature=playe...
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-09-2016 4:25 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-18-2016 5:00 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 185 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-18-2016 5:38 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 186 of 203 (794650)
11-18-2016 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by LamarkNewAge
11-18-2016 5:00 PM


Re: 1 issue at a time. I have a question for you GIA (based on a sentence of yours)
LamarkNewAge
(15) Jesus said: When you see him who was not born of woman, fall down upon your faces and worship him; that one is your Father
----------
The way I interpret this is from the point of view of the more Eastern mystics and their words put into Jesus' mouth.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
To that Jesus, your Father is in you.
This view is bolstered nowadays by science with Jung and Freud's Father Complex.
Father complex - Wikipedia
A bit of trivia for you. Google Michelangelo's creation painting and have a look at where God is. Note that the background is a representation of the right hand hemisphere of our brains. The Egyptians had the same view and notion with their eye iconography.
Gnostic Christianity has a more Eastern view of God than what the West has ended up with.
I can tell you from experience that apotheosis is hard to take and I ended up on my knees when I experience mine.
I would not say any should worship what they find though. Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers and we wish to evolve what we find to an even greater state.
------------------------------------------
"What did Paul mean here? Is this supernatural?"
Not to me as the Father Complex is our primal man. It is our set of instincts that push us to be the fittest of our species.
"'the Perfect Man'."
This theme is indeed old and many religions accepted as fact that man was God's greatest expression. God to them would have meant nature as indicated by this gnostic saying.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
-------------------------------------------
This that you quoted fits in quite nicely with Gnostic beliefs when you see heaven as here and now.
1 Corinthians 15:45-49
So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.
You are born without the Christ , ---as it is known. You were born from dust but when you matures and our true spirit, your Father Complex, manifests itself, you are in a sense born again from your apotheosis.
----------------------------------------------------
"that Jesus appeared on earth in changing human forms, and that He will reappear.[14] That by these "changing human forms"
I pulled this to start me up on Jesus.
Gnostic Christians basically see Jesus as an archetypal good man. When we were Chrestians, before Christianity usurped our writings and incorporated them in their idol worshiping theology, we called Jesus, Jesus the Good, and we named God, God the Good. No names as Gnostic Christians will see all people as being able to reach the Jesus mind within us. We are all Gods, minus the stupid supernatural aspect.
In scriptures, Jesus asked his disciples, who do they say I am?
The old Jewish tradition states that the spirit of their dead prophets will return and be reborn in other Jews. This is the tradition that is spoken of, I think, when people talk about the first Adam and second Adam etc. If Christianity had done a better job of interpreting the myths that they were usurping, much of this would have been clear and they would not have become the idol worshiping supernaturally lost religionists that they have become.
The waters became even muddier when Rome slid their Roman ass kissing Jesus into scriptures.
Jesus is the ultimate phone tag character who went from just a good man archetype to the son of an imaginary supernatural God who had to die to redeem us from the condemnation that the foolish Trinitarians must see as coming from Jesus himself. Too stupid of a scenario for any thinking man.
I must compliment you on your research and hope I have given you something to think about.
If you go into the more Eastern and especially Egyptian theology, you will see that they were into the chakra thinking, our glands, and were well aware of our pineal gland which they thought was the key to access our right hemisphere of our brains.
If you look at the largest sculpture inn the Vatican collection, you will see that it represent the pineal gland.
Some think it is a pine cone but that is a foolish view. To think that the ancients would sculpt a pine cone in that great of a size, showing it's importance, is too foolish for me to contemplate especially when they put a lot of importance on the pineal gland.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-18-2016 5:00 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Phat, posted 11-19-2016 9:55 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 191 of 203 (794702)
11-20-2016 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Phat
11-19-2016 9:55 AM


Re: 1 issue at a time. I have a question for you GIA (based on a sentence of yours)
Phat
"Who were you on your knees to? Yourself?"
In terms of the Father Complex, yes.
---------------
"You think that belief in a power greater than yourself"
Get the quote where I show such a notion and we can discuss it.
---------------
"When the truth is revealed fully to humanity,"
Tell us who or what is hiding whatever truth you allude to please, and tell us why it is being hidden.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Phat, posted 11-19-2016 9:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Coyote, posted 11-27-2016 10:55 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 11-28-2016 12:34 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 202 of 203 (795037)
12-04-2016 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Coyote
11-27-2016 10:55 PM


Re: Greatest I am's latest (failed) topic proposal
Coyote
Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
Robert A. Heinlein
A good quote and quite accurate.
That is why people should not do so until they find their Father Complex.
That is when a mind actually begins to think for itself.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Coyote, posted 11-27-2016 10:55 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 203 of 203 (795038)
12-04-2016 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
11-28-2016 12:34 PM


Re: 1 issue at a time. I have a question for you GIA (based on a sentence of yours)
Phat
"Why do you call it religion when it is only psychology?
Religions are created for social manipulation and control.
What is that if not psychology in the guise of theology?
But that aside, I see all religions and governments and their theology and philosophies to all be synonymous. All seek the best rules and laws to live life by and to say that one is different from the rest is to just have tunnel vision.
------------
"I am asserting that you do not believe in God as an external reality but only as an internal rationality. Logic tells us that an internally generated "god" can never be greater than ourselves because it is in fact our self."
If we are talking the supernatural God that was defined by most religions, including Islam and Christianity, before they became idol worshiping cults, then I agree. That God is a useless aberration that we should all scrap for the garbage he is.
The God I follow, so to speak, is indeed my internal construct of what a Father or God should be.
Am I greater than that God if I act on what I have learned?
Yes, as that God is not as active as I am. That is the only time I plead superiority over my God. I can go about while he cannot.
-------------
"that Jesus Christ is Lord and is alive today"
Why don't you just admit that you believe in a fantasy instead of making statement that are obvious lies?
That or start looking at the immorality of Jesus' moral tenets and recognize how immoral they are.
Just look at his no divorce and sacrifice policies and it is easy to see how immoral those are.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 11-28-2016 12:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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