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Author Topic:   Science proves that the tomb of Jesus (Christ ?)and James the Just have been found.
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 114 (797240)
01-16-2017 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Tangle
01-15-2017 3:48 AM


Re: Conclusion
What a strange question. It's research into the veracity of an important piece of our history. Why wouldn't that be useful regardless of what the findings are?
It may be useful, although it is difficult to sift through the OP and determine how it might be useful.
On the other hand, I don't think this message fits in the Faith and Belief section. Generally speaking, science stuff is not the accepted line of argument in such forums. In this forum, remarking that the idea that Jesus is buried in any tomb is counter-textual is a perfectly legitimate comment.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Tangle, posted 01-15-2017 3:48 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 01-16-2017 3:14 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 114 (797307)
01-16-2017 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tangle
01-16-2017 3:14 AM


Re: Conclusion
personally I thought the idea that Jesus was buried in a family tomb frightened Phat somewhat and he wanted it closed down.
Let me approach this from an oblique. Is it your understanding that there is a historical Jesus? If not, then what is likely about claims that some artifact is Jesus tomb?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 01-16-2017 3:14 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Tangle, posted 01-16-2017 3:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 114 (797405)
01-19-2017 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tangle
01-16-2017 3:35 PM


Re: Conclusion
NN writes:
If not, then what is likely about claims that some artifact is Jesus tomb?
Tangle writes:
I haven't said it's likely. It seems to me that it's going to be impossible to prove one way or another. My point was about how Phat reacted, not about the veracity of the claim.
I'll answer the question that I asked you. Almost certainly, any claim that the tomb is that of the Jesus described in the Bible is wrong. Of course, there was likely to be someone named Jesus. The questions I actually asked you were 1) whether you believed that the Jesus in the Bible is a historical figure, and given your answer 2) whether it was likely that this supposed "science" was conclusive of anything. Does this inquiry LNA describes help you in reaching either conclusion?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Tangle, posted 01-16-2017 3:35 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Tangle, posted 01-20-2017 3:19 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 114 (797445)
01-20-2017 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Tangle
01-20-2017 3:19 AM


Re: Conclusion
And I answered that I thought it more likely than not
No, you did not answer the question.
What you said was that more likely than not somebody back then was named Jesus. "Historical Jesus" implies somebody both named Jesus and at least tied to the stories in the Bible. In fact, your current post implies that the question cannot be answered at all.
Historical Jesus - Wikipedia
quote:
The term "historical Jesus" refers to attempts to "reconstruct the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth by critical historical methods," in "contrast to Christological definitions ('the dogmatic Christ') and other Christian accounts of Jesus ('the Christ of faith')."[1] It also considers the historical and cultural context in which Jesus lived.[2][3][4]
The vast majority of scholars who write on the subject agree that Jesus existed,[5][6][7][8] although scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the biblical accounts, and the only two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Tangle, posted 01-20-2017 3:19 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 01-20-2017 6:02 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 114 (797448)
01-20-2017 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Tangle
01-20-2017 6:02 PM


Re: Conclusion
Do you really think I might not be aware that the name Jesus is not unique to the mythical son of god?
Here is what you actually said, Tangle.
Tangle writes:
I think it is marginally more likely than not that someone called Jesus existed - but not, of course, that he was anything but human.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 01-20-2017 6:02 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2017 3:29 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
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