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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 4573 (797342)
01-17-2017 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Percy
01-16-2017 6:15 AM


Re: Trump Promises Health Care for All
I thought the main Republican objection to Obamacare was that it forced people to either purchase insurance or pay a penalty through their income tax, and that the secondary objection was to the government provided subsidies to those who couldn't afford to pay full price.
Republican politicians certainly voiced those objections, but they also objected to the "floor" for coverage mandated by the ACA. Almost certainly anything the Ryan led House will pass is going to allow employers to provide piss-poor coverage, maybe without any minimum level at all.
Both Trump and the Congress have plenty of exposure here. I expect "Teflon Don" to escape scrutiny by the people in exactly the way he has skated by on make financial disclosures and avoiding conflicts of interest.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Percy, posted 01-16-2017 6:15 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 725 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 122 of 4573 (797344)
01-17-2017 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Percy
01-16-2017 6:15 AM


Re: Trump Promises Health Care for All
Deductibles starting at $50,000?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Percy, posted 01-16-2017 6:15 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 4573 (797348)
01-17-2017 9:35 PM


Obama commutes sentence of Chelsea Manning.
I admit that I had thought about this until somebody suggested to me yesterday that Obama might do that. After hearing the suggestion, I thought there was a good chance Obama would do this, but the announcement was still a surprise!
Chelsea Manning sentence commuted | CNN Politics
Cannot wait to see Trump's tweet in response to this.
ABE:
And then there is this:
quote:
Earlier this month, WikiLeaks said it would agree to a US extradition request for the site's founder, Julian Assange, if Obama granted clemency to Manning. It was not immediately clear if WikiLeaks would make good on its promise, though the group declared "victory" in a tweet Tuesday afternoon.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 728 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 124 of 4573 (797401)
01-19-2017 2:56 PM


This reminds to of Senator Sherod Brown of Ohio and his situation.
During the GOP Ohio meltdown of the 2006 midterm elections(the 2004 Ohio voting machine scandal, Bob Ney, Mark Foley, Tom Delay, Brown), the anti-trade liberal congressman Brown actually won in Ohio. He beat the once safe GOP incumbent 56% to 44%. Democrats won the governorship 57% to 39% (usually Republicans win by that margin in statewide Ohio races).
Brown got real lucky in 2012 when he was up for his tough reelection. He won 50% to 45% because much working in his favor. Romney opposed the auto bailout which save a very large industry (tied to 25% of jobs directly or indirectly in several large towns) for Ohio, plus Brown had a young little squirt for a GOP opponent (who yelled at Brown in a debate to "stop lecturing me"). The hurricane in New York (and super hot 2012 summer) helped democrats from being hurt too much on energy/environmental issues though Ohio is a coal state. Obamas and Brown claimed they opposed gun control (despite the former support for the assault weapons ban which they insisted they opposed in 2012).
I wonder how Trumps trade positions will play out in Ohio in the Brown race in 2018?
Will their similar positions help Brown to win in 2018 when conventional wisdom would suggest he would have an uphill fight for reelection in a state Trump won by 8-9 points?
Will this be the race to decide if the Republicans get 60 Senators?
Or will Wisconsin and Tammy Baldwin be the deciding race?
Russ Feingold always (when election time came around in 1992, 1998, 2004, 2010) spent fully 33% of his advertising dollars bragging about how he sponsored constitutional amendments, while a Wisconsin state representative, to defend the 2nd amendment and how he supports gun control. He always insisted (in 2004 and 2010) that he opposed assault weapons bans for "now and the future" while he got hammered by his GOP opponents for the support of it in the 103rd congress of 1993-1994.
It didn't save him in 2010, but the 2016 rematch against his GOP opponent had Feingold hurt terribly on the gun issue now that democrats went after them with a vengeance after December of 2012.
Tammy Baldwin won 51% to 48% in 2012. Can she hold on in 2018?
Will there be tension between Trump and her GOP opponent on various issues.
If she looses, then is the complete GOP control (White House, filibuster proof senate, strong congressional majorities) just what is needed to cause the Democratic party to take a move in a direction that previously seemed unlikely (being a party that will support a Tulsi Gabbard ) but could very well generate a powerfully positive response by an American electorate tired of the old way?
Trump could be a blessing, really.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22359
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(3)
Message 125 of 4573 (797412)
01-20-2017 7:06 AM


The First Day of the Next Four Years
This first day of the Trump presidency is an apt and fitting time to list my greatest concerns about what he might do:
  • Start another unnecessary war.
  • Diminish the strength of NATO, thereby increasing Russian influence.
  • Start a trade war with any number of countries, including China.
  • Fill court vacancies with conservative judges, i.e., the Supreme Court and many other federal courts with vacancies.
  • Deport 2 to 3 million (Trump's number) criminal illegal aliens.
  • Deport the rest of the illegal aliens.
  • Build a wall between the US and Mexico.
  • Clamp down on Muslim immigration.
  • Eliminate gun-free zones around schools and military bases.
  • Eliminate and then not replace the Affordable Care Act.
  • Reduce Medicare coverage.
  • Reduce abortion rights.
  • Loosen environmental regulations, especially on coal.
  • Abandon international climate accords.
  • Reduce taxes on the rich.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by RAZD, posted 01-20-2017 9:05 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 128 by herebedragons, posted 01-20-2017 9:40 AM Percy has replied
 Message 129 by 1.61803, posted 01-20-2017 9:40 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 143 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-21-2017 10:13 AM Percy has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 126 of 4573 (797416)
01-20-2017 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Percy
01-20-2017 7:06 AM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
Starting with a parade
quote:
Donald Trump wanted a military parade down Pennsylvania Avenue, but settled for a 20-plane flyover
President-elect Donald Trump wanted a military parade for his inauguration today and he’s going to get something pretty close to it instead.
They were legit thinking Red Square/North Korea-style parade, a source involved in planning Trump’s inauguration told The Huffington Post on Thursday. This would have included tanks and missile launchers rolling down Pennsylvania Avenue. According to the same source, the plan was shot down not only because the roads may not have supported the heavy military equipment, but because the optics would have been too reminiscent of other tyrannical regimes.
Trump’s affinity for military parades was made clear during an interview with The Washington Post published on Wednesday. Being a great president has to do with a lot of things, but one of them is being a great cheerleader for the country, Trump told the Post. And we’re going to show the people as we build up our military, we’re going to display our military.
He later added, That military may come marching down Pennsylvania Avenue. That military may be flying over New York City and Washington, D.C., for parades. I mean, we’re going to be showing our military.
Well it would be more honest about US foreign policy ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Percy, posted 01-20-2017 7:06 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by vimesey, posted 01-20-2017 9:24 AM RAZD has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 127 of 4573 (797419)
01-20-2017 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by RAZD
01-20-2017 9:05 AM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
I do at least take from that, the comfort that someone, somewhere is at least on one occasion being listened to when he says "Are you out of your fucking mind ???"

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by RAZD, posted 01-20-2017 9:05 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by RAZD, posted 01-20-2017 10:33 AM vimesey has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 847 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 128 of 4573 (797421)
01-20-2017 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Percy
01-20-2017 7:06 AM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
Start another unnecessary war.
How do you see this playing out? My fear is that he will take a more separationist approach; that he will want to be less involved in troubles throughout the world - particularly with Russian aggression, North Korea's nuclear threat, and Iran's nuclear deal. I fear he will take a more hands off approach to these problems - which may very well lead to conflict, just that we may not be as involved. So, what types of "unnecessary wars" do you see him starting?
Reduce taxes on the rich.
More than direct tax cuts for the rich, I fear he will roll back regulations on banking and corporations, creating an environment that is ripe for the rape of the middle and lower classes and will eventually leave us vulnerable to another economic recession. His ideas seem to be very much trickle-down economics although he has not used that term that I know of.
The rest of your list matches my concerns rather well. I would move environmental issues much higher on the list (although I don't get the sense that your list was ordered by importance). I said this before that I expect we will see some economic growth as a result of Trump's policies, but they will come with a very high cost, one which will be the environment - Trump is definitely an advocate of externalization. I fear how much Trump "prosperity" will cost us in the long run.
I would also add that I am concerned about his ideas for slashing government spending. Although I am in favor of reducing the government deficit, reducing the size of the federal government and shifting more of the responsibilities to the states, I am deeply concerned about the areas he will be cutting. I fear these cuts will be such that it directly benefits corporate America and leaves the average citizens vulnerable.
It's a scary time...
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Percy, posted 01-20-2017 7:06 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Percy, posted 01-20-2017 10:12 AM herebedragons has not replied
 Message 1349 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2017 11:20 AM herebedragons has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 129 of 4573 (797422)
01-20-2017 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Percy
01-20-2017 7:06 AM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
Let us hope he is going to be true to his word.
"I will do a good job for you."~Donald J. Trump

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Percy, posted 01-20-2017 7:06 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22359
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 130 of 4573 (797424)
01-20-2017 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by herebedragons
01-20-2017 9:40 AM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
herebedragons writes:
How do you see this playing out?...So, what types of "unnecessary wars" do you see him starting?
I wouldn't presume to even try to make any ballpark guesses about the particular ways Trump will misstep in military and foreign affairs, I just have a strong concern that he will.
More than direct tax cuts for the rich, I fear he will roll back regulations on banking and corporations,...
Yeah, I realized later I forgot that one. That's another big concern.
It's a scary time...
Yes, not helped by Trump's tendency to appoint people as ignorant and unnuanced as himself. The forlorn hope that Trump's appointments might compensate for his own lacks has already been dashed.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by herebedragons, posted 01-20-2017 9:40 AM herebedragons has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by NoNukes, posted 01-20-2017 11:49 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 131 of 4573 (797427)
01-20-2017 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by vimesey
01-20-2017 9:24 AM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
I do at least take from that, the comfort that someone, somewhere is at least on one occasion being listened to when he says "Are you out of your fucking mind ???"
Sadly the response was that Pennsylvania Avenue would not survive the loads of the big weapons and tanks.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by vimesey, posted 01-20-2017 9:24 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by vimesey, posted 01-20-2017 10:38 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 134 by kjsimons, posted 01-20-2017 12:03 PM RAZD has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 132 of 4573 (797428)
01-20-2017 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by RAZD
01-20-2017 10:33 AM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
Yeah, but it was the bit about the reason not only being that, but also not wanting to look too much like a tyrannical regime.
Don't piss on my fire too much - it's a really small one ! ;-)

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by RAZD, posted 01-20-2017 10:33 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 4573 (797435)
01-20-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Percy
01-20-2017 10:12 AM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
Diminish the strength of NATO, thereby increasing Russian influence.
Start a trade war with any number of countries, including China.
Fill court vacancies with conservative judges, i.e., the Supreme Court and many other federal courts with vacancies.
I don't expect that Ginsburg will stay until the end of Trump's term, and perhaps Kennedy and Breyer will also retire. I cannot see any of the three lasting beyond a second term for Trump. I think it very likely that Trump could replace up to four Supreme Court Justices. And of course, there are the other federal courts.
If you want to know where the evangelical support came from, it may well be based on the potential to turn the Supreme Court irrevocably right.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Percy, posted 01-20-2017 10:12 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 134 of 4573 (797436)
01-20-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by RAZD
01-20-2017 10:33 AM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
Razd writes:
Sadly the response was that Pennsylvania Avenue would not survive the loads of the big weapons and tanks.
This is actually not really a sad thing, it just means that the road was made to support regular vehicles. Just like airports had to keep beefing up their runways and taxiways when passenger planes got larger and heavier. Why would we want to waste money to make the roads able to support tanks and other heavy equipment?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by RAZD, posted 01-20-2017 10:33 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by RAZD, posted 01-20-2017 12:12 PM kjsimons has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 135 of 4573 (797438)
01-20-2017 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by kjsimons
01-20-2017 12:03 PM


Re: The First Day of the Next Four Years
... Why would we want to waste money to make the roads able to support tanks and other heavy equipment?
So that we would be ready for the UN troops to take over and launch the New World Order [/conspiracy]
So that the army could take over as the first step to taking peoples guns away [/conspiracy]
Sorry, you really need to keep up with AltReich AltNews ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by kjsimons, posted 01-20-2017 12:03 PM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by kjsimons, posted 01-20-2017 12:22 PM RAZD has replied

  
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