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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 271 of 1864 (797459)
01-21-2017 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Phat
01-21-2017 4:41 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:
OK. If so, is it possible that all atheists have already been given the opportunity to know God?
Which God Phat, which god? Vishnu, Allah, Thor? Have Christians been given the opportunity to ignore them and all the others?
The next question is why would one prefer to ignore Him?
There's nothing to ignore. How can a mythical creature that has no tangible or intangible impact on my life be ignored. You don't ignore things that don't exist. Neither you nor I are ignoring pixies are we?
Understanding an atheist's position is easy Phat, you just treat your belief in this god thing, the same as every other fantasy entity. It's absolutely no different.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 4:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:17 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:18 PM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 272 of 1864 (797463)
01-21-2017 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Tangle
01-21-2017 6:18 AM


deleted
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2017 6:18 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 273 of 1864 (797464)
01-21-2017 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Tangle
01-21-2017 6:18 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Maybe this explains it Tangle. My irrationality has been notably more prevalent lately.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2017 6:18 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2017 12:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 274 of 1864 (797465)
01-21-2017 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Phat
01-21-2017 12:18 PM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:
Maybe this explains it Tangle. My irrationality has been notably more prevalent lately.
I wouldn't say you're more irrational, you just seem a bit more 'needy'. Don't worry about it, 'this too will pass'.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 275 of 1864 (797515)
01-23-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Phat
01-21-2017 4:41 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:
If so, is it possible that all atheists have already been given the opportunity to know God?
In our society, which is awash with talk about gods, everybody has had an opportunity to know God - unless He is deliberately hiding from some of us.
Phat writes:
The next question is why would one prefer to ignore Him? (Stay hypothetical in your answer. ) Just because you lack evidence...is that any reason to ignore Him?
Do you ignore the Loch Ness monster? Leprechauns? The Tooth Fairy?
Answer your own question: Is the lack of evidence for them any reason to not believe in them?
Phat writes:
What is it you would hypothetically want from Him that is any different from what I want from Him?
You're asking the wrong question. You should be asking what you GET from Him that I would want. As far as I can see, you're not GETTING anything that I'm not getting - so why would I put Him in the equation at all?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 4:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 01-24-2017 11:26 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 276 of 1864 (797603)
01-24-2017 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by ringo
01-23-2017 10:54 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
ringo writes:
Do you ignore the Loch Ness monster? Leprechauns? The Tooth Fairy?
Yes. There is no reason nor purpose for believing in them. I used to believe in the tooth fairy only to be able to extort money out of her.
Answer your own question: Is the lack of evidence for them any reason to not believe in them?
No. lack of evidence plays a small role. I'm trying to figure you out, though. Answer me this: Would you spend as much time answering questions about Leprechauns as you do about God and Jesus?
What is it about the latter characters that make everyone suddenly want their opinion to be known?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 10:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 01-24-2017 11:34 AM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 277 of 1864 (797604)
01-24-2017 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by Phat
01-24-2017 11:26 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:
There is no reason nor purpose for believing in them.
What's the reason or purpose for believing in God?
Phat writes:
lack of evidence plays a small role.
So what's the difference between the loch Ness monster, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy and God?
Phat writes:
Answer me this: Would you spend as much time answering questions about Leprechauns as you do about God and Jesus?
Sure. Start a topic.
But bear in mind that I know a lot more about the fictional Christian God than I know about leprechauns. We don't have many leprechaun missionaries trying to convince us to believe.
Phat writes:
What is it about the latter characters that make everyone suddenly want their opinion to be known?
The Internet has a tendency to suck opinions out of people. Don't kid yourself that a lot of chatter about your belief validates your belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 01-24-2017 11:26 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 01-29-2017 10:05 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 278 of 1864 (797910)
01-29-2017 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by ringo
01-24-2017 11:34 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
what's the difference between the loch Ness monster, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy and God?
God exists. God existed before humans even had the capacity or ability to make Him up.
bear in mind that I know a lot more about the fictional Christian God than I know about leprechauns. We don't have many leprechaun missionaries trying to convince us to believe.
You won't find many missionaries from fictional characters. People think long and hard about giving their life....
Don't kid yourself that a lot of chatter about your belief validates your belief.
My point is that validity can be derived in ways apart from objective evidence. Subjective evidence counts also.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 01-24-2017 11:34 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by ringo, posted 01-29-2017 1:26 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 279 of 1864 (797923)
01-29-2017 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Phat
01-29-2017 10:05 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Paht writes:
ringo writes:
what's the difference between the loch Ness monster, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy and God?
God exists. God existed before humans even had the capacity or ability to make Him up.
Nope. You may believe that one fictional character exists and others do not but that doesn't make your belief different from an atheist who believes in the Loch Ness monster.
Phat writes:
You won't find many missionaries from fictional characters.
Sure you will. Ever hear of Mormons? Cultists of all kinds? Snake-oil salesmen? What they're selling is pure fiction.
Phat writes:
People think long and hard about giving their life....
Clearly not. Ever hear of mountain climbers? Thrill-seekers of all kinds?
Phat writes:
Subjective evidence counts also.
No it doesn't. If it's subjective, it isn't evidence.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Don't kid yourself that a lot of chatter about your belief validates your belief.
My point is that validity can be derived in ways apart from objective evidence.
You're trying to claim that if a lot of people believe it, it must be true (valid). That's nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 01-29-2017 10:05 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 02-09-2017 3:08 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 280 of 1864 (799305)
02-09-2017 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by ringo
01-29-2017 1:26 PM


The Proof is in the pudding...if we can find the pudding
ringo writes:
You may believe that one fictional character exists and others do not but that doesn't make your belief different from an atheist who believes in the Loch Ness monster.
You have yet to prove that God is a fictional character. We have done sonar readings in the Loch.
You're trying to claim that if a lot of people believe it, it must be true (valid). That's nonsense.
Perhaps, but absence of evidence does not conclude evidence of absense.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by ringo, posted 01-29-2017 1:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by ringo, posted 02-09-2017 11:31 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 281 of 1864 (799342)
02-09-2017 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Phat
02-09-2017 3:08 AM


Re: The Proof is in the pudding...if we can find the pudding
Phat writes:
You have yet to prove that God is a fictional character. We have done sonar readings in the Loch.
We didn't find God in there either.
Phat writes:
Perhaps, but absence of evidence does not conclude evidence of absense.
The same applies to the Loch Ness monster.
Mind you, we do have eyewitness accounts of the Loch Ness monster - not of God. There's not enough evidence to conclude that the Loch Ness monster is a real biological. There is no evidence that God is a real spook.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 02-09-2017 3:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 282 of 1864 (811136)
06-05-2017 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Jon
08-17-2014 12:13 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
The Lord created man to have FREE CHOICE cause He didn;t want a robot forced to love and obey HIM. He wanted a free individual to learn to appreciate the Father, Son and Mother (Holy Spirit) and do things out of love and experience after learning that the Father and Mother and Sons principles were good for them and good for others.
Simple answer, simple truth.
The Lord wants us to personnally learn to choose His principles, experience His principles and know His principles, and then decide what to do according to His principles of LOVE.
The Lord knew all things before He created them and Yes, created the ultimate falling angel and his angels that knowingly rebelled and choose poorly and lead others to do the same. But its for good as all things work together for good, in the GREAT DESIGN, but atheists and evolutionists reject design and look for excuses and errors in the Lords judgments and mercies and created UNIVERSE. They are foolish, His people are wise and getting wiser the more they choose HIM.

Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science.
Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Jon, posted 08-17-2014 12:13 PM Jon has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 283 of 1864 (811138)
06-05-2017 11:21 AM


Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything... just give him time to rationalize it.
Robert A. Heinlein

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Davidjay, posted 06-05-2017 11:54 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 284 of 1864 (811149)
06-05-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by Coyote
06-05-2017 11:21 AM


Jesus wins again
Nah, me personally dont get into it at all, I hate fantasies and theorising. I want the real thing and something I can experience and KNOW rather than stupid mind numbing denials and idiotic postings from two second thoughts that are unfounded and baseless.
I beame a Christian when I tried and proved to myself that the Lord was real, or I should say HE PRIVED IT. Whimps can sit in their caves and theorise, I like the real world, and so went out in the real world and became a full time missionary for forty some years, and Jesus has proven himself as a supplier or my and our needs and we are doing just fine before we meet HIM in person. But there wont be any surprises because we already KNOW HIM in part, and then it will just be in FULL.
Thank you Jesus.
Amen Coyote ? Amen ? AMEN !
Besides all we need tyo know is Jesus is God
ProofofJesusDivinity
Jesus wins again !
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science.
Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Coyote, posted 06-05-2017 11:21 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by ringo, posted 06-05-2017 11:58 AM Davidjay has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 285 of 1864 (811151)
06-05-2017 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Davidjay
06-05-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Jesus wins again
Davidjay writes:
Jesus wins again
You're setting the bar too low.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Davidjay, posted 06-05-2017 11:54 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Davidjay, posted 06-05-2017 12:10 PM ringo has replied

  
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