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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 167 of 4573 (797572)
01-24-2017 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by NoNukes
01-23-2017 8:04 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
NoNukes writes:
So we disagree. As long as there are no ethical issues involved, I have no problem with a former politician, or anybody else making tons of money.
Obama became rich while still a politician, not a "former politician." Regardless of the path to wealth, politics should not be a means to riches. Money's influences are corrupting. Again, the Senate is all multi-millionaires. Just a rare statistical anomaly? I don't think so.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by NoNukes, posted 01-23-2017 8:04 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 168 of 4573 (797573)
01-24-2017 6:38 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Coyote
01-23-2017 8:59 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
Coyote writes:
Trump is reportedly accepting $1 per year.
His isolation from his businesses is in question (from which he makes far more than the presidential salary of $400,000/year), and he apparently has no intention of releasing his tax returns.
In related news, the Trump hotel in Washington D.C. lease stipulates that no "elected official of the government ... shall be admitted to any share or part of this Lease, or to any benefit that may arise therefrom." (The Trump hotel, emoluments and conflicts)
The problem isn't that conflicts like this abound. It's that Trump doesn't care. He'll have to be forcibly separated from entanglements like this (which likely abound) in the courts. As Trump would tweet, "Sad."
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 170 of 4573 (797576)
01-24-2017 7:34 AM


A Good Question
Concerning the blatant lies told by the Trump press secretary about the inauguration crowd sizes the Australian Financial News writes (Truth, Lies and the Trump Administration):
quote:
As Robert Moore, the Washington correspondent for ITN, puts it: "If the White House press secretary says things that we know to be demonstrably false, why will we trust him on North Korea, Russia, Iran [and the] war on Isis?" That is not just a good question — it is a vital one.
This must be some sort of record for a bad start by a new presidential administration.
--Percy
PS: About the link, to view it you need to either turn off Javascript or subscribe.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 180 of 4573 (797626)
01-24-2017 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by NoNukes
01-24-2017 2:21 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
NoNukes writes:
...and Percy's policy that they shouldn't write books or do speaking tours after being president,...
I never said anything like that. I noted the flaw in our system in the way it allows so many to become rich from a career in politics. The root of the problem is the value of political influence.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by NoNukes, posted 01-24-2017 2:21 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2017 12:30 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 183 of 4573 (797727)
01-26-2017 7:29 AM


The Wall
During the election it was often said that Trump detractors took Trump literally but not seriously, while Trump supporters took him seriously but not literally. Well, it turns out we should all have been taking Trump seriously *and* literally. He's actually moving ahead with The Wall.
Sample article: Donald Trump: We will build the wall with Mexico now
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by jar, posted 01-26-2017 7:35 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 196 of 4573 (797785)
01-27-2017 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
01-27-2017 7:20 AM


Re: And 180 degrees to the right...
Hi Faith,
Again, I regret having to moderate my own thread, but I'm not going to allow this thread to spiral out of control. As I told RAZD when he introduced speculative content, and as I told you earlier, please make your discussion objective and evidence-based, and eschew initiation of left/right imbroglios. I'm asking those unwilling to do this to get off the thread.
--Percy

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 Message 195 by Faith, posted 01-27-2017 7:20 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 199 of 4573 (797793)
01-27-2017 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
01-27-2017 9:11 AM


Re: And 180 degrees to the right...
Faith writes:
...and he's really not interested in the numbers himself.
The evidence strongly indicates that it is Trump more than anyone anywhere who is most interested in the crowd numbers at his inauguration. He talked about it in tweets, he talked about it in meetings with Republican legislators, he talked about it to the CIA, he sent his press secretary to castigate the press about it, and he asked the National Parks Service to find photo evidence. Trump's ability to take offense, even at simple facts that few but him care about, is substantial.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 01-27-2017 9:11 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 01-27-2017 11:08 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 213 of 4573 (797822)
01-27-2017 2:25 PM


Faith's Coffee House Forum Posting Permissions Removed
Faith shows no interest in constructive evidence based discussion, so I've again removed her posting permissions in the Coffee House forum.
I truly regret having to moderate my own thread, but we have a thin moderator crew. Normally I'd recuse myself for a couple days and then return as moderator, but Faith has chased me from participation mode to moderator mode too often, and I'd like to actually participate in my own thread this time without haven't it trashed.
If Faith would like to promise to stay out of this thread and begin her own thread she should let me know, in which case I'll restore her posting permissions.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 214 of 4573 (797824)
01-27-2017 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
01-27-2017 11:08 AM


Re: And 180 degrees to the right...
Faith writes:
Nevertheless his interest in the numbers may be predominantly in the fact that the media misrepresented them,...
The evidence from images like this indicates that the media accurately represented that fewer attended Trump's inauguration than Obama's first:
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 01-27-2017 11:08 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 215 of 4573 (797826)
01-27-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by NoNukes
01-27-2017 12:30 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
NoNukes writes:
You specifically suggested that things like writing books and giving speeches were examples of those 'flaws'.
No, I didn't call them examples of flaws, and I didn't say anything about books. I used the word flaw in reference to the value of political influence. I think it perverts not just the political process but everything associated with politics, even remotely.
I did mention that as ex-president Obama can command large speaking fees, like $500,000 per speech. I do consider the great value of political influence to be a flaw in our system that causes vastly inflated prices for things political, like speeches by former politicians.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2017 12:30 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2017 6:39 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 217 of 4573 (797831)
01-27-2017 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by NoNukes
01-27-2017 6:39 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
NoNukes writes:
What is your problem with the speaking fees Obama can "command" and how do those fees "perverts not just the political process but everything associated with politics"? Why should anybody except the folks who ask him to speak care about the size of Obama's speaking fees?
I didn't say that speaking fees pervert anything. The size of the fees is a symptom, not a cause. It is the considerable value of political influence that is the cause.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2017 6:39 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 11:06 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 335 by NoNukes, posted 02-11-2017 2:38 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 219 of 4573 (797903)
01-29-2017 9:12 AM


The Week That Was
Well, that was a chaotic week. Here are Trump-related events from the past week:
  • Issued a confusing executive order that Obamacare should be enforced as little as possible within the realms of legal discretion. Health insurance companies are unable to predict what the result might be.
  • Revived pipeline projects shutdown by Obama.
  • Ordered that building the wall along the Mexican border begin, claiming it would be paid by a tariff on goods from Mexico. Of course, Americans would then end up paying for the wall in the form of higher prices on tariffed goods.
  • Caused a brouhaha with the Mexican president over who will pay for the wall, causing him to cancel a trip here.
  • Ordered that the US withdraw from the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership).
  • Ordered a renegotiation of NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement).
  • Ordered an immediate immigration ban, causing chaos at airports and stranding legitimate immigrants overseas.
  • Claimed that his inauguration crowd was the largest in history, despite photo evidence to the contrary, then doubled down on the claim again and again, despite that no one cares but him.
  • Claimed he lost the popular vote because of millions of fraudulent votes, despite the total lack of evidence, then made the claim again and again, despite that no one cares but him.
This is from memory - did I forget anything? Even just what I remember makes this the worst first week in presidential history.
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(3)
Message 221 of 4573 (797911)
01-29-2017 10:17 AM


We Again Have a Teflon President
Reagan was often described as the Teflon president because negative news and outcomes just didn't seem to stick to him. It looks like we again have a Teflon president, but in a different sense: with Trump it is facts that just seem to slide off. An editorial in today's New York Times, Can Donald Trump Handle the Truth?, sums up the problem pretty well:
quote:
...Mr. Trump has reminded the nation of an essential truth about his personality: He sees what he wants to see, and nothing else.
...
Mr. Trump wanted his inauguration crowd to be the biggest ever, so in his mind it was, no matter what was plainly obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes.
Any information that challenges his worldview does not lead him to reconsider his beliefs; it gets flushed down the sort of emotional and intellectual dispose-all that I think he carries around with him, Timothy O’Brien, one of Mr. Trump’s biographers, told Politico recently.
...
Mr. Trump is not merely uninterested in facts; he repels them. In their place, he confects his own reality to feed his bottomless emotional and psychological needs. It is not America First, it is Donald Trump First, and always.
...
This is the essence of Mr. Trump: selling himself or his plans by massaging and embellishing facts, or simply making them up and hoping everyone plays along.
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 243 of 4573 (798103)
01-30-2017 10:05 PM


Topic Reminder
The topic is the Trump presidency to be discussed in a rational and fact-based manner. I'll be asking those who can't abide this request to leave the thread.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 245 of 4573 (798115)
01-31-2017 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Tanypteryx
01-30-2017 10:56 PM


Re: the spontaneous outpouring of citizenry
Tanypteryx writes:
marc9000 writes:
Here are a few of the Democrats;
*Someone with an open fondness for a communist dictator like Fidel Castro (Bernie Sanders) wouldn't have gotten anywhere near a Democrat presidential nomination in the 60's.
I suppose that is probably correct. I wasn't aware of his fondness for Castro. I have always thought Castro was an asshole and that communism is a shitty system to live under.
I think this one from Marc is on-topic since the Republican corollary is that Trump has a troubling fondness for communist dictator Putin.
Trump's rocky start continued last night when he fired his acting attorney general, a holdover from the Obama administration. She ordered the Justice Department to not defend Trump's immigration orders because they were likely illegal. She was a little vague, but she seems to believe that such actions would have required declaration of a national emergency.
The Trump presidency will continue to run in turmoil so long as he continues to indulge his intemperate and impulsive nature. As he reacts with such outrage to every perceived slight like pictures of crowd sizes, one wonders how he will react in a true emergency. Legitimate cause for worry.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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