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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 974
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 211 of 4573 (797819)
01-27-2017 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Faith
01-27-2017 12:28 PM


Re: And 180 degrees to the right...
We conservatives have watched the media lie and manipulate in favor of the Left and against the Right for years. Oh yes they do. the lies have even become more blatant through the Trump candidacy.

Does that include Fox News? Last I checked, they are part of the 'media'. And also the last time I checked, they lean heavily conservative.

Why is everything myopic in your world view? It's left/right, liberal/conservative, black/white, up/down. There appears to be no critical analysis or review. It's just simply: "Liberals are evil. They lie. They are communists. Obama is a Muslim Kenyan. The world is 6000 years old because a book written by early iron age goat herders tells me so." Yada yada.

The issue I am seeing is not necessarily misrepresentations by the media, white house spin doctors, and so forth. It is a complete lack of critical thinking on the part of many who seemed to have just decided to shut off the analytical part of their brain and deny facts even when they are staring them in the face.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 01-27-2017 12:28 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Diomedes, posted 02-01-2017 9:48 AM Diomedes has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 726 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 212 of 4573 (797821)
01-27-2017 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Faith
01-27-2017 12:28 PM


Re: And 180 degrees to the right...
He didn't complain about his crowd size. He complained about how the media misrepresented it.

And yet it has been verified with time dated pictures that the media were correct.

Trump is the one misrepresenting things, that is who he is: he puffs himself up and brags about stuff (magazine covers for instance) that are unimportant to anyone else.

We conservatives have watched the media lie and manipulate in favor of the Left and against the Right for years. Oh yes they do. the lies have even become more blatant through the Trump candidacy.

Main stream media is all about viewer numbers regardless of facts. We Liberals have watched the media lie and manipulate in favor of the Right against the Left for years. Did you follow the news about Bernie? How about the #NoDAPL protests? Remember the Occupy Movement?

Who owns the media, Faith?

Trump makes himself a target by attacking the media and then complaining that they set the record straight. He does it because that keeps him IN the news so that he can manipulate the story told to you, the sheep followers. He is obsessed with being in the spotlight.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 213 of 4573 (797822)
01-27-2017 2:25 PM


Faith's Coffee House Forum Posting Permissions Removed
Faith shows no interest in constructive evidence based discussion, so I've again removed her posting permissions in the Coffee House forum.

I truly regret having to moderate my own thread, but we have a thin moderator crew. Normally I'd recuse myself for a couple days and then return as moderator, but Faith has chased me from participation mode to moderator mode too often, and I'd like to actually participate in my own thread this time without haven't it trashed.

If Faith would like to promise to stay out of this thread and begin her own thread she should let me know, in which case I'll restore her posting permissions.

--Percy


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 214 of 4573 (797824)
01-27-2017 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
01-27-2017 11:08 AM


Re: And 180 degrees to the right...
Faith writes:

Nevertheless his interest in the numbers may be predominantly in the fact that the media misrepresented them,...

The evidence from images like this indicates that the media accurately represented that fewer attended Trump's inauguration than Obama's first:

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 01-27-2017 11:08 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 215 of 4573 (797826)
01-27-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by NoNukes
01-27-2017 12:30 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
NoNukes writes:

You specifically suggested that things like writing books and giving speeches were examples of those 'flaws'.

No, I didn't call them examples of flaws, and I didn't say anything about books. I used the word flaw in reference to the value of political influence. I think it perverts not just the political process but everything associated with politics, even remotely.

I did mention that as ex-president Obama can command large speaking fees, like $500,000 per speech. I do consider the great value of political influence to be a flaw in our system that causes vastly inflated prices for things political, like speeches by former politicians.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2017 12:30 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2017 6:39 PM Percy has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 216 of 4573 (797829)
01-27-2017 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Percy
01-27-2017 3:17 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
Here is what you said about speaking fees:

It was a general point about the political class in agreement with Trump, that politics seems to be a route to riches when it shouldn't be, and Obama was an example. As an ex-president Obama can now go out on the speaking circuit commanding large fees.

What is your problem with the speaking fees Obama can "command" and how do those fees "perverts not just the political process but everything associated with politics"? Why should anybody except the folks who ask him to speak care about the size of Obama's speaking fees?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Percy, posted 01-27-2017 3:17 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Percy, posted 01-27-2017 7:30 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 217 of 4573 (797831)
01-27-2017 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by NoNukes
01-27-2017 6:39 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
NoNukes writes:

What is your problem with the speaking fees Obama can "command" and how do those fees "perverts not just the political process but everything associated with politics"? Why should anybody except the folks who ask him to speak care about the size of Obama's speaking fees?

I didn't say that speaking fees pervert anything. The size of the fees is a symptom, not a cause. It is the considerable value of political influence that is the cause.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 335 by NoNukes, posted 02-11-2017 2:38 AM Percy has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 726 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 218 of 4573 (797856)
01-28-2017 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Percy
01-27-2017 7:30 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
Can you post Some evidence for voter fraud to Free For All?

Thanks


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 219 of 4573 (797903)
01-29-2017 9:12 AM


The Week That Was
Well, that was a chaotic week. Here are Trump-related events from the past week:

  • Issued a confusing executive order that Obamacare should be enforced as little as possible within the realms of legal discretion. Health insurance companies are unable to predict what the result might be.

  • Revived pipeline projects shutdown by Obama.

  • Ordered that building the wall along the Mexican border begin, claiming it would be paid by a tariff on goods from Mexico. Of course, Americans would then end up paying for the wall in the form of higher prices on tariffed goods.

  • Caused a brouhaha with the Mexican president over who will pay for the wall, causing him to cancel a trip here.

  • Ordered that the US withdraw from the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership).

  • Ordered a renegotiation of NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement).

  • Ordered an immediate immigration ban, causing chaos at airports and stranding legitimate immigrants overseas.

  • Claimed that his inauguration crowd was the largest in history, despite photo evidence to the contrary, then doubled down on the claim again and again, despite that no one cares but him.

  • Claimed he lost the popular vote because of millions of fraudulent votes, despite the total lack of evidence, then made the claim again and again, despite that no one cares but him.

This is from memory - did I forget anything? Even just what I remember makes this the worst first week in presidential history.

--Percy


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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 777
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 220 of 4573 (797905)
01-29-2017 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Percy
01-29-2017 9:12 AM


Re: The Week That Was
On the last bulleted item you could add that he's going to launch an investigation into this "large scale voter fraud" especially in the "big states" (i.e. California and New York).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Percy, posted 01-29-2017 9:12 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 221 of 4573 (797911)
01-29-2017 10:17 AM


We Again Have a Teflon President
Reagan was often described as the Teflon president because negative news and outcomes just didn't seem to stick to him. It looks like we again have a Teflon president, but in a different sense: with Trump it is facts that just seem to slide off. An editorial in today's New York Times, Can Donald Trump Handle the Truth?, sums up the problem pretty well:

quote:
...Mr. Trump has reminded the nation of an essential truth about his personality: He sees what he wants to see, and nothing else.
...
Mr. Trump wanted his inauguration crowd to be the biggest ever, so in his mind it was, no matter what was plainly obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes.

Any information that challenges his worldview does not lead him to reconsider his beliefs; it “gets flushed down the sort of emotional and intellectual dispose-all that I think he carries around with him,” Timothy O’Brien, one of Mr. Trump’s biographers, told Politico recently.
...
Mr. Trump is not merely uninterested in facts; he repels them. In their place, he confects his own reality to feed his bottomless emotional and psychological needs. It is not America First, it is Donald Trump First, and always.
...
This is the essence of Mr. Trump: selling himself or his plans by massaging and embellishing facts, or simply making them up and hoping everyone plays along.


--Percy


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3437
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 222 of 4573 (797912)
01-29-2017 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Percy
01-29-2017 10:17 AM


Re: We Again Have a Teflon President
This is the essence of Mr. Trump: selling himself or his plans by massaging and embellishing facts, or simply making them up and hoping everyone plays along.

After Trump sent his press secretary, Sean Spicer, out to make statements about the inauguration crowd that were clearly lies, Kellyanne Conway told Chuck Todd on Meet the Press that the administration had their own "Alternate Facts." To his credit Todd stated that there is no such thing as alternate facts, that those are untruths.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


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herebedragons
Member (Idle past 178 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 223 of 4573 (797913)
01-29-2017 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Percy
01-29-2017 9:12 AM


Re: The Week That Was
did I forget anything?

How about when he tweeted that if Chicago didn't fix their crime problem he wold send in the Feds.

That statement deeply disturbed me. Later someone on his staff said he meant he would send federal help, but that is certainly not the tone of his tweet. His statement was threatening and suggestive of a police state solution. *shivers*

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 8580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 224 of 4573 (797914)
01-29-2017 11:57 AM


After a couple of hundred years, it looks like you got yourself a monarch again.

I'm deeply sorry.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 726 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 225 of 4573 (797915)
01-29-2017 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Tangle
01-29-2017 11:57 AM


After a couple of hundred years, it looks like you got yourself a monarch again.

I'm deeply sorry.

We revolted before we can be revolting again ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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