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Author Topic:   Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 16 of 1006 (798498)
02-02-2017 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by JonF
02-02-2017 6:43 PM


Jonf writes
suspect a hidden "except for...".
Buhhhhhh?
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by JonF, posted 02-02-2017 6:43 PM JonF has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 17 of 1006 (798499)
02-02-2017 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Porosity
02-02-2017 8:00 PM


X
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Porosity, posted 02-02-2017 8:00 PM Porosity has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 18 of 1006 (798500)
02-02-2017 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Porosity
02-02-2017 8:00 PM


I don't know what sort of alternative reality you're living
No alternate reality. Here at this website I'm known as Mr Reality. Ask around
Also, history has proven that morality is SUBJECTIVE, once upon a time it was cool to own slaves,
You mean like monkeys and other species? I'll make a monkey out of you yet Porosity
Answer me this Sir.
If morality is the lessening of maximum misery, would it be morally correct to exterminate a colony of rats by poisonous pellets?
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Porosity, posted 02-02-2017 8:00 PM Porosity has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Porosity, posted 02-02-2017 11:17 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 19 of 1006 (798501)
02-02-2017 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by JonF
02-02-2017 9:15 PM


He didn't go that far yet. He's just implied that any morality atheists exhibit is irrational. It's the same old "rational atheists should conclude that they can do anything they want, so why aren't they rampaging and murdering and raping and pillaging?".
I regard anyone who thinks religious belief is required for moral behavior with some concern. But they area prioriwrong, atheists in general are moral. That is an observed fact, so the interesting question is "why?", not "why are you doing atheism wrong? ".
Time to to get busy son, with Mr reality. My objection is a logical one not emotional or personal.
Given that all thing in nature are equal as far as life is concerned. That is, all life is sacred and deserves to thrive and survive, just like you.
Would it be murder to put several chickens to death for your consumption. If not, could you kill and eat another human, since all life is just life
What would be the difference of murder in one instance and just something else in another instance
Trying to get you to see that morality has to come from a source outside the human construct or perspective, otherwise it's just inconsistent subjective nonsense. The chicken doesn't share your views about what constitutes murder or misery
Mr Sam Harris sloppy reasoning, notwithstanding
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Modulous, posted 02-03-2017 2:12 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied
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Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 20 of 1006 (798503)
02-02-2017 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Adequate
02-02-2017 5:45 PM


Well, you go ahead and try to establish morality from a theistic standpoint, and we'll see if you can do any better.
How am I doing so far there, Dr A
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-02-2017 5:45 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-02-2017 11:25 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2215 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 21 of 1006 (798504)
02-02-2017 10:54 PM


Religion Cannot Rationally Explain Morals
Atheism Religion Cannot Rationally Explain Morals
There are some 20,000 world religions, and some 40,000 sects, branches, denominations and flavors of christianity alone. There is nowhere close to an agreement on any given set of morals among those religions.
Sorry to have to burst your bubble.
(Or, are you figuring that it is your own religion that is the only one that counts?)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Replies to this message:
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Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 22 of 1006 (798505)
02-02-2017 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Coyote
02-02-2017 10:54 PM


Re: Religion Cannot Rationally Explain Morals
AtheismReligion Cannot Rationally Explain Morals
There are some 20,000 world religions, and some 40,000 sects, branches, denominations and flavors of christianity alone. There is nowhere close to an agreement on any given set of morals among those religions.
Sorry to have to burst your bubble.
(Or, are you figuring that it isyour ownreligion that is the only one that counts?)
No u miss the whole point. The question is not do people or can people get things wrong wild Coyote. This is a question pitted against reality and what it will allow in the area of morality
Can people religious or not be the source for an absolute moral.
IOWs, if it's OK to eat another living thing and it's not murder, why could people not kill and eat other people on a regular basis and it not be murder
You have to take it out of the personal realm into the completely rational and reality realm
Dawn Bertot

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 40 by ringo, posted 02-03-2017 10:53 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

  
Porosity
Member (Idle past 2203 days)
Posts: 158
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013


(3)
Message 23 of 1006 (798506)
02-02-2017 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dawn Bertot
02-02-2017 10:17 PM


You mean like monkeys and other species?
Not unless you believe your daughter is a monkey and Hebrews are a different species.
I'll make a monkey out of you yet Porosity
You can't even make sense.
If morality is the lessening of maximum misery, would it be morally correct to exterminate a colony of rats by poisonous pellets?
It depends, are the rats causing the plague?
otherwise rats are irrelevant to human wellness, unless your poisoning a colony of beloved pets or a shop owners prized possession of hairless rats.
How long are you going to tap dance, or are you just trolling?
Edited by Porosity, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 10:17 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 11:30 PM Porosity has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 24 of 1006 (798507)
02-02-2017 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Dawn Bertot
02-02-2017 10:43 PM


How am I doing so far there, Dr A
Since you haven't tried, you have failed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 10:43 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 11:36 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 25 of 1006 (798508)
02-02-2017 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Porosity
02-02-2017 11:17 PM


Rats are irrelevant to human wellness, unless your poisoning a colony of beloved pets or a shop owners prized possession of hairless rats.
How long are you going to tap dance, or are you just trolling?
Stay calm son and quit getting emotional, it blinds you to reality. Of course rats are irrelevant to human wellness. That's not the point
For a moral to be real and rational from a Naturalistic standpoint, it has to be consistent in its tenets for all life, because all life is equal, true
But you didn't answer my question. Is it moral to exterminate a colony of rats with poisonous pellets, yes or no. And how did u arrive at that conclusion
Tell me your reasoning of why it's OK or not ok
If you think I'm tap dancing, ask me a direct question and I'll answer it. You've ask me nothing yet
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Porosity, posted 02-02-2017 11:17 PM Porosity has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Porosity, posted 02-02-2017 11:41 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 26 of 1006 (798509)
02-02-2017 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Dr Adequate
02-02-2017 11:25 PM


Since you haven't tried, you have failed.
Ah Dr Inadequate your always good for a larf, not much else, but you do succeed in that area

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-02-2017 11:25 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-03-2017 12:20 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Porosity
Member (Idle past 2203 days)
Posts: 158
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013


Message 27 of 1006 (798511)
02-02-2017 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dawn Bertot
02-02-2017 11:30 PM


I have no feelings, I'm indifferent to trolling.
Here's a question.. Where do you get your morals from?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 11:30 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 11:52 PM Porosity has replied
 Message 29 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-03-2017 12:02 AM Porosity has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 28 of 1006 (798512)
02-02-2017 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Porosity
02-02-2017 11:41 PM


have no feelings, I'm indifferent to trolling.
Here's a question.. Where do you get your morals from?
Not sure what your definition of trolling is but I've been here since 2007 with nearly 4000 posts and numerous threads
But to answer your question, my morals come from the God of the Bible, he has infinite wisdom, that's why he's God and can establish morals for creatures

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Porosity, posted 02-02-2017 11:41 PM Porosity has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Porosity, posted 02-03-2017 12:58 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied
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Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 29 of 1006 (798513)
02-03-2017 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Porosity
02-02-2017 11:41 PM


See u in the morning if your still around goes to crash

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Porosity, posted 02-02-2017 11:41 PM Porosity has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17849
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 30 of 1006 (798514)
02-03-2017 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dawn Bertot
02-02-2017 9:49 PM


quote:
Don't see how that follows
If your argument applies to everyone - and it seems it does - then the conclusion also applies to everyone. Adding irrelevant qualifiers to the argument achieves nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 9:49 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
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